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[1.2.3] Predator Update

Posted: Sat May 18, 2013 8:57 am
by Sradac
I desperately need icons! Either suggestions for re-using old icons, or someone giving me some new custom ones would be appreciated. I dont really care either way ;)

Another Update: Who Needs Strength?!
http://te4.org/games/addons/tome/predator-class
1. All new Icons for the three class trees, all credit goes to jotwebe because he is awesome like that!
2. Shadow Archery now requires both Dex AND Cunning. Dexterity to use the bow, Cunning to make use of your heightened predatorial senses.
3. Endless Hunt is now locked.
4. New Generic tree in the works, "Umbral Stalker"
a. Right now, the only talent in this tree that is finished is the first one. But its a VERY important one!
b. "Stalker" now works like Lethality, except for both Knives AND Bows. Now this class will never need to worry about Strength so the stat spread isnt as bad.
c. Plans for the rest of the Umbral Stalker tree:
I. Passive Darkness damage similar to Weapon Folding (It might even generate a minor amount of hate. This is in response to those out there who suggested something similar in the past to have darkness / shadow damage as part of the theme. I think it fits.
II. A talent that does massive damage if used from stealth. If not used from Stealth, disable target. Probably Pin.
III. Some kind of shield / absorption / Regen / Heal.
5. Still need to finish out Lonewolf. But this class is approaching "Feature Completeness"
I was thinking to myself earlier, Archery really dosent get enough love. Theres only 2 classes that use bows, and 1 that uses slings.

So i decided to make a pretty simple addon that creates the Predator class, an afflicted that is focused around dual weapons and archery. Basically an archer / rogue hybrid but I didnt want just an archer / rogue hybrid becaues thats boring, so I thought of some lore / flavor for the class and came up with this guy.

I will expand this as I can, it is mostly a dive into learning lua and te4. Feedback appreciated!! :

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		"Predators are a special type of the Afflicted that wander Maj'Eyal.  While the others might seek to strike out directly at the world around them, enraged by their Curse, or oppress the weaker embracing the Doom, they take a different approach.",
		"Not content with a simple slaughter, or dominating through wilpower, Predators embrace the subtler abilities their Affliction has bestowed upon them.",
		"They prefer to cloak their form, Stalking their prey, waiting for the perfect moment to strike.",
		"They live for the sheer thrill of the hunt now. It is all an endless game for them.  Is there any game out there that can match their skill and their cunning?",
		"Predators will either slink in the shadows and take a shot with their bow for a perfect shot all while tracking their Prey, or slip behind them unnoticed and unleash swift but sure flashes of the blade to quickly drop their target",
		"Some have been known to utilize both tactics, depending on what the situation calls for.  Those predators are the ones of legend, able to take down entire squads of enemies with a mixture of Arrows and Steel.  Reports of those events always tell of the forces being ambushed by a large force of Guerilla enemies, and why wouldn't they?",
		"Who would suspect a lone hunter is the one responsible for this much carnage?  This is the way the predator prefers to keep it.  Not out for gloating, or fame, or recognition.  It is the self-satisfaction of their own inflated ego.",
		"That ego is their Affliction.  Endlessly stalking the next bigger prize, moving to the next target, until finally they choose the one Mark they can not handle.",
		"They use: Dexterity, Cunning, and Wilpower",

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Vanilla trees known: 
		technique/archery-bow
		technique/combat-training
		technique/mobility
		cursed/endless-hunt (locked)
		cursed/predator
		cursed/cursed-form
		cunning/survival
		cunning/scoundrel(locked)

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New trees known:
               cursed/unseen-hunter
               cursed/lonewolf
               cursed/shadow-archer
               cursed/umbral-stalker

Re: [1.0.3] Predator

Posted: Sat May 18, 2013 3:54 pm
by ajfluffy
I think a new afflicated class would be awesome :P

Re: [1.0.3] Predator

Posted: Sat May 18, 2013 4:55 pm
by Sradac
http://te4.org/games/addons/tome/predator-class

Go check it out!!!

First upload, really not playable as they die super fast. Just looking for feedback on the base, vanilla talents assigned.

Re: [1.0.3] Predator

Posted: Sat May 18, 2013 5:01 pm
by Umbrall
You have a problem with shooting and stabbing?

Re: [1.0.3] Predator

Posted: Sat May 18, 2013 6:30 pm
by Sradac
Updated: http://te4.org/games/addons/tome/predator-class

This is actually playable now, and fares pretty well. The beginning of the new tree is in place.

Things todo next:
1. Make Quickdraws swap work. Need to update player.lua to make swap check for this in addition to the existing checks.
2. Change the movespeed of Quickdraw to something else, unless people think the movespeed is fitting for the theme.
3. Get better talent names.
4. Make Flourish not work when wielding a bow, I think seeing someone swing a bow around in the air would have the opposite effect of whats intended, enemies would just laugh at them.
5. Either remove Sixth Sense or make it work. Leaning to removing since its more of a place holder.
6. (maybe) see about making Shadowstrike work with Archery.

Umbrall, no problem at all thats why I made this :) I just wanted to come up with a little bit of background for the class beyond just "Some dude who carries daggers and shoots stuff" so I pictured a silent hunter, picking prey off from a distance and / or sneaking up behind them to slash their throats. Afflicted just felt like it fit well with that theme.

Re: [1.0.3] Predator

Posted: Sun May 19, 2013 11:46 pm
by Peppersauce
Just tried it, and I think maybe you could add something like Lethality, but for bows and maybe also daggers, as the standard weapon selection would mean you'd be tempted to either spread your points thin and take Str and maybe a 1-hander or go slings, both of which would be... thematically wrong, I guess. :lol:
(also tempting because slings means dual-wielding in both slots, see sling Rogues)
The Lethality like thing could be Quickdraw's other bonus, but movespeed fits imo. Maybe give lower movespeed (like... 6/12/18/24/30) and that Cun instead of Str thing together, if you like that idea.

Or.. if I may... ditch Stealth and Scoundrel, switch to Str and put RAMPAGE instead of Stealth. Not thematic, but badass. :lol:
(nah, don't do that)

About Flourish, well... Dominate works with bows afterall, heh. Maybe put a similar skill in, this class definitely needs a pin or some other disabler at the start that's usable with both weapons.
About Sixth Sense, you'd definitely want something that makes use of Stalk somehow other than Harass Prey, don't know what you could do though.
Your plan on last skill of the tree sounds nice.

I like the idea a lot tho, always wanted to have another hybrid class other than TW.

Re: [1.0.3] Predator

Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 12:50 am
by Sradac
I actually thought long and hard (thats what she said!) about lethality, or something like it. The only problem then would be, daggers no longer use str, but your bows still do.

Although, your suggestion of using cun instead of str for bows is very good. Makes sense too, you use your wit and cunning to target the weak spots on enemies to do more damage, instead of just raw strength to pull the string back farther.

That would help at least a little bit with the point spread on this class, and I do agree it needs some kind of disabler.

My original plan was to put distracting shot as the first talent as your "I need to close into melee distance asap" skill. Maybe I could remove flourish and just make it some kind of disabling shot.

But then, the class is again left with no real good melee abilities. I could easily give them 2 weapon combat I just didnt want to give too many class trees to this char, pred and endless hunt both need large investments to become really good.

I guess I should work some more on this tonight and stop playing with mages.

Re: [1.0.3] Predator

Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 12:56 am
by Sradac
also feel free to flog me DarkGod, but im going to be overloading player.lua to make some of this work until I get better at lua to figure out how to properly superload.

Well, I know HOW to superload, but, how would I ADD to an existing function??

player.lua currently for swap:

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	-- Check for free weapon swaps
	local free_swap = false
	if self:knowTalent(self.T_CELERITY) or self:attr("quick_weapon_swap") then free_swap = true end
what it needs to be to work with quickdraw:

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	-- Check for free weapon swaps
	local free_swap = false
	if self:knowTalent(self.T_CELERITY) or self:knowTalent(self.T_QUICKDRAW) or self:attr("quick_weapon_swap") then free_swap = true end
Would superloading this overwrite the existing function? because then I might as well be overloading.

Can I do this and not break celerity? :

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	-- Check for free weapon swaps
	local free_swap = false
	if self:knowTalent(self.T_QUICKDRAW) then free_swap = true end
I would think this will create a new function and apply free_swap to it.

Fug it, im going to try that instead and see what happens.

Re: [1.0.3] Predator

Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 1:21 am
by Sradac
well im stuck. Can anyone help? I thought I was doing the superload of player.lua correctly. This is what I have:

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require "engine.class"
require "mod.class.Actor"
require "engine.interface.PlayerRest"
require "engine.interface.PlayerRun"
require "engine.interface.PlayerHotkeys"
require "engine.interface.PlayerSlide"
require "engine.interface.PlayerMouse"
require "mod.class.interface.PlayerStats"
require "mod.class.interface.PlayerDumpJSON"
require "mod.class.interface.PlayerExplore"
require "mod.class.interface.PartyDeath"
local Map = require "engine.Map"
local Dialog = require "engine.ui.Dialog"
local ActorTalents = require "engine.interface.ActorTalents"

local _M = loadPrevious(...)

local base_quickSwitchWeapons = _M:quickSwitchWeapons

function _M:quickSwitchWeapons()
	base_quickSwitchWeapons(self)
	if self:knowTalent(self.QUICKDRAW) then free_swap = true end
	return base_quickSwitchWeapons
end

return _M
And yet, Im getting this lua error every time I try to start up:

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Lua Error: /loader/init.lua:151: bad argument #1 to 'setfenv' (number expected, got nil)
	At [C]:-1 
	At [C]:-1 setfenv
	At /loader/init.lua:151 
	At [C]:-1 require
	At /mod/class/Game.lua:45 
	At [C]:-1 require
	At /mod/load.lua:327 
	At [C]:-1 require
	At /engine/Module.lua:158 load
	At /engine/Module.lua:720 instanciate
	At /engine/utils.lua:1880 showMainMenu
	At /engine/init.lua:139 
	At [C]:-1 dofile
	At /loader/init.lua:193 
Its like nothing from the previous player.lua is getting loaded...I think?

Re: [1.0.3] Predator

Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 9:13 am
by darkgod
Fix:

local base_quickSwitchWeapons = _M.quickSwitchWeapons

Re: [1.0.3] Predator

Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 9:43 am
by HousePet
Yes . instead of :

A mildly weird analogy.

. is when you are talking about someone or something they have
: is when you are calling them up/summoning them

Re: [1.0.3] Predator

Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 1:37 pm
by jotwebe
Hmm, very interesting, I was thinking about doing something similar (latest name idea Grim Hunter), but throwing some willpower based trees in there. Gloom would work in an interesting way - be protected from distant things and have a kite-friendly disabler for stuff that gets close, Fears would be very cool and has Panic as a distance button, Darkness for mobility and field control.

The thing about Stealth is that it's a natural fit with cunning and therefore slings. Same with your Unseen Hunter tree. So now you need dexterity and a bit of strength for bows and daggers, willpower for Endless Hunt, plus cunning on top of it all.

I do think bows are a lot more thematic than slings (those just aren't scary), so I'd say give them a willpower based tree similar to Stealth. Or they need a stat talent like Arcane Blades and Temporal Wardens have.

Ok, going to play around with them in the arena now...

EDIT: Right, done that. Predator (the tree) and Endless Hunt need to be modified to work on ranged as well as melee hits, I think.

Re: [1.0.3] Predator

Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 3:21 pm
by Peppersauce
jotwebe wrote:Hmm, very interesting, I was thinking about doing something similar (latest name idea Grim Hunter), but throwing some willpower based trees in there. Gloom would work in an interesting way - be protected from distant things and have a kite-friendly disabler for stuff that gets close, Fears would be very cool and has Panic as a distance button, Darkness for mobility and field control.
Field Control could be cool, maybe as a locked tree. Fears would be thematic, Darkness and Gloom... hardly thematic, I guess. (well, Darkness could still fit in a way, but I can't see a class like this having Gloom)
jotwebe wrote:The thing about Stealth is that it's a natural fit with cunning and therefore slings. Same with your Unseen Hunter tree. So now you need dexterity and a bit of strength for bows and daggers, willpower for Endless Hunt, plus cunning on top of it all.
Yeah, if the class stays this way stat spread's gonna be a b***h.
jotwebe wrote:I do think bows are a lot more thematic than slings (those just aren't scary), so I'd say give them a willpower based tree similar to Stealth. Or they need a stat talent like Arcane Blades and Temporal Wardens have.
Agree on bows, but if he's gonna put in a tree like Stealth but Wil-based he might just as well switch to Darkness altogether and ditch Scoundrel for Field Control, even if that would be a serious blow to the melee side of the class. Stat talent could be ok, but I guess he might as well go with that Lethality-like buff at that point.
jotwebe wrote:EDIT: Right, done that. Predator (the tree) and Endless Hunt need to be modified to work on ranged as well as melee hits, I think.
Predator, yes... Endless Hunt... not really, Harass Prey on a ranged attack would be ridiculous. :lol:
(An attack that's both ranged and melee and makes use of the Stalk debuff would be great, tho. Without Preternatural Senses and Frenzy, Stalk's there just for Harass Prey and that means it's not useful enough as of now on such a class)
Predator aside, ranged side is quite covered as of now imho, they have 2 bow trees already, and both are unlocked from the start. The melee part of the class needs at least an early attack, Flourish does that as of now but it'll go away, I think.
Huh, got an idea... instead of Flourish, what about a sustain that grants some bonus damage (ala Weapon Folding... darkness or poison damage, I guess) and a chance to pin or stun? (a chance that increases with Stalk level (I don't mean Stalk's talent level, but Stalk's level 1/2/3 thing) and... maybe the debuff you get to apply changes with Stalk level and/or the weapon you're using, like... pin on bows, stun on daggers?)

Anyway, sradac, if you wanna add another tree for enhancing melee I'd suggest Dirty Fighting. The class has a lot of trees already tho... maybe you could add it as a locked tree, I guess.

Re: [1.0.3] Predator

Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 3:47 pm
by ajfluffy
why not simply grant self:attr("quick_weapon_swap") instead of altering player.lua?
check out swift hands:

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uberTalent{
	name = "Swift Hands",
	mode = "passive",
	on_learn = function(self, t)
		self:attr("quick_weapon_swap", 1)
		self:attr("quick_equip_cooldown", 1)
		self:attr("quick_wear_takeoff", 1)
	end,
	on_unlearn = function(self, t)
		self:attr("quick_weapon_swap", -1)
		self:attr("quick_equip_cooldown", -1)
		self:attr("quick_wear_takeoff", -1)
	end,
	info = function(self, t)
		return ([[You have very agile hands; swapping equipment sets (default q key) takes no time, nor does wearing/taking off items.
		Also the cooldown for equipping activatable equipment is removed.]])
		:format()
	end,
}

Re: [1.0.3] Predator

Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 4:47 pm
by jotwebe
Peppersauce wrote: Field Control could be cool, maybe as a locked tree. Fears would be thematic, Darkness and Gloom... hardly thematic, I guess. (well, Darkness could still fit in a way, but I can't see a class like this having Gloom)
I meant field control in a general sense, not Field Control the tree. That would of course be a possibility, too, but I think it would duplicate stuff that's already there. As to what would be thematic - well, it's Sradac's class, but I'm seeing it as a psycho hunter guy with some uncanny powers. A ranged Cursed, basically. So I don't see where Gloom wouldn't fit - Darkness, I'd grant you, is a bit overt maybe, but you could do interesting stuff with it. Cast Creeping Dark on some guys ahead for the damage bonus, cast it just behind you to prepare an escape.
Peppersauce wrote: Agree on bows, but if he's gonna put in a tree like Stealth but Wil-based he might just as well switch to Darkness altogether and ditch Scoundrel for Field Control, even if that would be a serious blow to the melee side of the class. Stat talent could be ok, but I guess he might as well go with that Lethality-like buff at that point.
Played around with a stealthy slinger adventurer just now, and it appears that Shadowstrike doesn't help with ranged attacks. So there's even less of a point for the regular Stealth tree.
Peppersauce wrote:
jotwebe wrote:EDIT: Right, done that. Predator (the tree) and Endless Hunt need to be modified to work on ranged as well as melee hits, I think.
Predator, yes... Endless Hunt... not really, Harass Prey on a ranged attack would be ridiculous. :lol:
(An attack that's both ranged and melee and makes use of the Stalk debuff would be great, tho. Without Preternatural Senses and Frenzy, Stalk's there just for Harass Prey and that means it's not useful enough as of now on such a class)
Yeah, good catch about Harass Prey. I was thinking about Stalk there - it would be nice if it could be initiated by ranged attacks. Ranged Harass would be crazy, I agree.
Peppersauce wrote:Huh, got an idea... instead of Flourish, what about a sustain that grants some bonus damage (ala Weapon Folding... darkness or poison damage, I guess) and a chance to pin or stun? (a chance that increases with Stalk level (I don't mean Stalk's talent level, but Stalk's level 1/2/3 thing) and... maybe the debuff you get to apply changes with Stalk level and/or the weapon you're using, like... pin on bows, stun on daggers?)
I for one like this, especially the pin on bows, stun on dagger thing. Maybe have bows do poison and melee do darkness? Call it "Honed by Hatred."