ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

I noticed in the character guides that the option to boost a talent tree (by spending a category point on it) doesn't seem to be used very often, in general. The only tree I've seen this recommended for is pugilism (brawler). I guess it's because of diminishing returns? Is there no other talent tree worth boosting?

From the top of my head I'd say Bone Shield tree for Defilers is worth it.
I've also successfully done Combat Veteran too on a Bulwark.

Think there was a thread like this a while back but a quick search didn't find me it.

1/ Mostly trees are not worth boosting. Sometimes there's a breakpoint (like Bone Shield or Shadows) where a cat point can get you a solid benefit, but those are few and far between, and even those are generally arguable.

2/ Brawlers also have the problem that their unlockable trees are kinda bad, so in their specific case it's sometimes the best way to spend that cat point. It's not that boosting Pugilism is "so good", it's that boosting Pugilism is better than the other options available.

EDIT: looks like new Shadows also has the 1.5 mastery breakpoint, fixed my comment

I thought general consensus on the Doomed Shadows tree was that it was worth the cat point for that extra shadow? Has that changed recently or something?

spell/stone (body of stone)
cursed/shadows (call shadow)
defiler/blood (blood spray)
psionic/focus (mindlash)

malboro_urchin wrote:Has that changed recently or something?

I thought people were complaining about losing that ability when the i500 scaling was implemented, but maybe I recall incorrectly.

As of 1.1.5, the extra catpoint does get you a 4th Shadow.

Mostly its just that there are better options.
You get 4 category points so once you have unlocked two extra inscription slots and two extra categories, they are all gone.

HousePet wrote:You get 4 category points so once you have unlocked two extra inscription slots and two extra categories, they are all gone.

I was thinking of Cornacs, who may have a spare category point at the end of the game.

Faeryan wrote:From the top of my head I'd say Bone Shield tree for Defilers is worth it.
I've also successfully done Combat Veteran too on a Bulwark.

Think there was a thread like this a while back but a quick search didn't find me it.

Bone Shield no longer benefits from being boosted. The only one that still works is Shadows.

What about the cursed tree? I boosted that to give me cursed items boosted to huge benefit. Is that no longer the case?

Furey wrote:What about the cursed tree? I boosted that to give me cursed items boosted to huge benefit. Is that no longer the case?

I forgot about this one but yeah, you could get some benefit from boosting it. However, there's the issue of only two of the five curses being good at max curse level (Corpses and Shourds). I personally don't feel like either Afflicted class has the category points to spare, but it's definitely one of the best categories to boost.

Cursed Aura definitely needs a buff, but if you're taking that route a cat point does give the very significant benefit of two more curses from rings and +1 level on all active curses. Curse of Shrouds is amazing and very much worth stack far beyond simply maxing it, as +resist-all gives exponential returns. You have 10 curseable item slots (9 if you go two-hander, but I prefer 1h+psiblade on cursed), if just 6 of those have a Curse of Shrouds the resulting level 9 curse (with Defiling Touch and the cat point bonus) gives you +40% resist-all when moving, +40% resist-all in the next 3 turns after each kill, and with Thick Skin and equipment just one of those bonuses can easily cap you at 70% resist-all. On top of that you get +20 constitution, >90% darkness resist cap and all the invisibility detection you will need. Add in sanctuary and you fear nothing from out-of-LoS attacks or surprise grand master assassins, and you always have the option to just take a walk and absorb all that damage from Worm Rot, Impending Doom or those ridiculously high damage diseases. Shrouds is good.

Too bad every other curse is bad and absolutely not worth ten generics with or without the cat point, and for some reason the remaining time for the Shrouds buff doesn't reset when you kill something while it's active. Corpses is good in the Orc Prides, and Nightmares is actually pretty good if you stack it beyond max, but doesn't seem to ever proc at level 4. Good stat bonus, physical resistance is always good, and Slow/Meatshields/free damage and hate from Hateful Whispers is nice when it actually triggers.

It's disapointing to see that so very few trees are really boosted with a category point spent (or wasted then) on them.

Especially considering how big in the game a category point is , as boosting a tree will means that you will not get an additional rune/infusion (that are always very usefull to have) or will not unlock a tree to get even more skills and tactical options.

Robsoie wrote:It's disapointing to see that so very few trees are really boosted with a category point spent (or wasted then) on them.

Especially considering how big in the game a category point is , as boosting a tree will means that you will not get an additional rune/infusion (that are always very usefull to have) or will not unlock a tree to get even more skills and tactical options.

I've wondered why the talent tree boosting isn't rewarded more too. The trend seems to be the opposite in that it has been made less lucrative over versions. I mean, I do understand that focusing on some one or two super treers can be problematic in terms of game design and it probably makes balancing more difficult too but like you said, cat point is still a huge investment. Maybe you shouldn't be able use cat points to improve a mastery at all if the rewards are usually pretty bad (compared to alternatives)? How is a n00b supposed to know that he probably shouldn't boost trees on pretty much any character?

To be honest I think it's getting to the point where boosting categories should simply be removed. It does virtually nothing in most cases, and is pretty much a noob trap.