ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

I've been having quite a bit of trouble killing the beast on my characters. Lost all the lives of my first cornac bulwark (I kind of wanted to restart anyway), could hold my ground for a little while with my (much better built) dwarf bulwark, but couldn't come close to killing it, and lost a life of my thalore time warden before giving up (and slaughtering it 5 levels later).

The combination of its many buffs, debuffs (and especially those that make you unable to flee), bone grab (which pulls you away from the stairs), the impossibility to teleport (which, unsurprisingly, was my TW's undoing), and the limited options that one has at low levels (I can build for survival or offense, but not really both at that point) makes me wonder how I am supposed to handle this fight. I mean, apart from entering the level to make it spawn, and then coming back later. I saw that it lost its rune of speed in b37, but I'm pretty sure the fight will still be too tough for my characters. Is this just a matter of me lacking experience with the game? That boss seems like a really big jump in difficulty compared to everything else at this point.

I usually do it after the labyrinth and the sandworm lair and very rarely have any problems with it. Granted, I usually am playing magey characters that have an easy time to output damage, but try to have a means to close up quickly and decent peak damage. Pop the boneshield with DOT or a weak, affliction-causing attack, then hammer it with all you've got. An insidious poison infusion might be useful here.

If you can stun or use rod of annulment on the thing, do it.

Got my skeleton cursed demolished yesterday, teaching me once again not to tempt the RNG. Lack of stun res + no affect removal was the main problem, so avoid that.

Alright I've played Skelly Cursed a lot and weirdling is definitely doable, but, early-mid game choices are so important that it can ruin you. Also, stairscumming on Cursed is OK. Cursed can have a notoriously difficult start and mid game. Do not be afraid to play like a pansy, fate cursed you itself! And since stairscumming was nerfed anyway, the act is primarily to just reset a boss encounter that you know can be unfair; 99% of the other encounters are completely doable without stairscumming.

What I try to do with this race-class combo is to use the Skeleton 1st generic to fulfill str and dex requirements. Pump -all- your points into willpower unless you absolutely need to place other points for an important talent. Such as putting in str stats for that point in blindside or cleave; or points into dex to buff your bone armour.

Example of a level 1 Skeleton Cursed using this:
Talents:
armor 1 combat acc 1 weapon mas 1 skeleton 1
dominate 1 stalk 1 gloom 2 unn body 1
Stats:
str 15/20 dex 10/16 mag 10/10
will 17/17 cun 10/10 con 10/10

What this type of build does: Buff willpower based abilities while using the stats from the Skeleton generic to have *just* enough for items and other talents. Your Cursed will rely on active talents like dominate, beckon, harass prey, and blindside. The true power comes from the passive willpower talents like the gloom tree, preternatural senses, and stalk without waiting on stat requirements for non-willpower talents.

Basically you need to make your Cursed's class talents as strong and as varied as possible because pretty much all of your generics are passive. They're strong, but passive, and don't help you in a clutch situation. If you earn escort talents like Providence or that Anorithil heal, blah blah, they work great on a Skeleton Cursed who cannot use wild infusions.

Rectifier wrote: Also, stairscumming on Cursed is OK. Cursed can have a notoriously difficult start and mid game. Do not be afraid to play like a pansy, fate cursed you itself! And since stairscumming was nerfed anyway, the act is primarily to just reset a boss encounter that you know can be unfair; 99% of the other encounters are completely doable without stairscumming.

See, that's what's wrong with scairscumming, in my opinion. Classes and bosses are still being balanced (note the beast losing its speed rune) and saying it's "doable with stairscumming" means it isn't doable, really. Or at least not doable with a specific build at a specific point in time.

Anyway, back to the OT: I doubt pumping willpower would have made the difference in this case - this char did have lots. I kept getting frozen and then massacred with soul rot, manathrust and that mind damage thing while being only able to hit the iceblock. Possibly a gloom stun would have helped, but it'd have to have during the few rounds in which I was able to act.

I should have put a more generics into relentless for the stun resist, I think. Armor training, on the other hand, wasn't all that great for this fight, since I believe most damage came from spells.

Yes, absolutely put points into stun resist, with no wild infusion this character type is especially vulnerable to stun.

I don't mean rely on stairscumming, I don't; just do it if you feel like you have to. I actually go out of my way *not* to stairscum unless I know, "I'm definitely losing a life/lives here if I don't stairscum." For me its a question of getting another shot at an encounter versus having to completely start over again.

Cursed are one class where I feel like everything can run smoothly, then you hit a wall that you can't possibly climb. It's certainly better than it was, that's for sure. The cursed item tree currently feels really... meh. I wish I could take it later in the game. Cursed seem like they still have problems with accuracy, perhaps even a little worse than before in right of recent changes.

Temporal wardens do really struggle with the Weirdling Beast, in the sense that they can struggle with anything. Can't fight from range, can't use any of their mobility talents, and the Weirdling Beast can dispel sustains. Plus, many TWs will focus on utility over damage, which is OK for the majority of the early/mid-game, but not for a boss that can shield and heal.

This is my character dump right after killing the Weirdling with my Cursed, there were only two *key* times that I had trouble.
1st against the Half-Finished Bone Golem, you can't stairscum this guy and he can out tank you easily. Solution: Kite the asshole, use your shield to get hits in, but run away again before he can deal damage; I barely managed to kill the guy, but I did so at 6hp.
2nd Subject F###ing Z is the bane of your existence because he can deal a 220+ dmg shadowmove and follow it with a 500+ dmg flurry when your Hate is low...*and* he has a huge defense score. Make sure you have a shitload of accuracy to take this guy down. My only deaths were from this chump... If you can coordinate your generic points well enough that you can pump them all into accuracy right before the fight, do it, just remember to put them where it makes more sense right after killing him.

Key Items for success: Insatiable ego on main or off-hand, Slime ego on main, Shield Rune, Teleport Rune.

I could give more advice but I'm too lazy.

[ToME4 @ http://www.te4.org Character Dump]
Sex : Male STR: 30
Race : Skeleton DEX: 23
Class : Cursed MAG: 14
Level : 18 WIL: 58
Exp : 8% CUN: 26
Gold : 1136.07 CON: 28

Accuracy(Main Hand): 31 Life: 533/573 Encumbrance: 44/114
Damage (Main Hand): 28 Difficulty: Normal
Permadeath : Adventure
APR (Main Hand): 9
Crit (Main Hand): 15%
Speed (Main Hand): 1.00

Accuracy(Off Hand): 31
Damage (Off Hand): 10
APR (Off Hand): 12
Crit (Off Hand): 16%
Speed (Off Hand): 1.00

Fatigue : 0% Spellpower : 19
Armor : 16.64 Spell Crit : 4.6%
Armor Hardiness : 43% Spell Speed : 1
Defense : 24.925531966158
Ranged Defense : 25.925531966158
All damage : 0%
Physical damage : 5%

Physical Save : 19.6
Spell Save : 22.25
Mental Save : 30.85

All Resists: -3%
Cold Resist(cap): 23%( 70%)
Lightning Resist(cap): 3%( 70%)
Nature Resist(cap): 23%( 70%)
Darkness Resist(cap): 1%( 74%)
Temporal Resist(cap): 4%( 70%)
Poison Resistance: 100%
Disease Resistance: 11%
Bleed Resistance: 100%
Confusion Resistance: 56%
Blind Resistance: 10%
Disarm Resistance: 15%
Stun Resistance: 65%
Fear Resistance: 100%
Knockback Resistance: 45%

Number of NPC killed: 960
Most killed NPC: degenerated skeleton warrior (62)

[Talents Chart]
- Technique / Combat training (mastery 1.30)
Thick Skin (generic) 1/5
Armour Training (generic) 2/10
Combat Accuracy (generic) 4/10
Weapons Mastery (generic) 1/10
Knife Mastery (generic) 0/10
- Undead / Skeleton (mastery 1.10)
Skeleton (generic) 2/5
Bone Armour (generic) 1/5
Resilient Bones (generic) 1/5
Re-assemble (generic) 2/5
- Cursed / Slaughter (mastery 1.30)
Slash (class) 1/5
Frenzy (class) 1/5
Reckless Charge (class) 1/5
Cleave (class) 0/5
- Cursed / Endless hunt (mastery 1.30)
Stalk (class) 1/5
Beckon (class) 1/5
Harass Prey (class) 1/5
Surge (class) 2/5
- Cursed / Strife (mastery 1.30)
Dominate (class) 4/5
Preternatural Senses (class) 2/5
Blindside (class) 2/5
Repel (class) 0/5
- Cursed / Gloom (mastery 1.00)
Gloom (class) 5/5
Weakness (class) 1/5
Torment (class) 1/5
Life Leech (class) 1/5
- Cursed / Cursed form (mastery 1.00)
Unnatural Body (generic) 1/5
Seethe (generic) 1/5
Relentless (generic) 3/5
Stoic (generic) 0/5
- Cursed / Cursed aura (mastery 1.00)
Defiling Touch (generic) 2/5
Dark Gifts (generic) 2/5
Ruined Earth (generic) 0/5
Cursed Sentry (generic) 0/5

[Inscriptions (4/4)]

Rune: Phase Door
Rune: Shielding
Rune: Teleportation
Rune: Vision

[Current Effects]

- Gloom
- Surge
- Stalk
- Curse of Misfortune
- Curse of Shrouds
- Curse of Corpses

[Character Equipment]

In main hand
a) slime-covered steel waraxe of paradox (13.5-18.9 power, 3 apr) (Misfortune)
Type: weapon / waraxe

Base power: 13.5 - 18.9
Uses stat: 100% Str
Damage type: Physical
Armour Penetration: +3
Physical crit. chance: +4.0%
Attack speed: 100%
Damage when this weapon hits: +16 slime / +17 temporal
When wielded/worn:
Damage when the wearer is hit: 7 temporal
Changes resistances: +7% temporal
Curse of Misfortune

Dropped by Wrathroot
In off hand
b) steel dagger 'Belegas' (10-13 power, 6 apr) (Misfortune)
Type: weapon / dagger

Base power: 10.0 - 13.0
Uses stats: 45% Dex, 45% Str
Damage type: Physical
Armour Penetration: +6
Physical crit. chance: +5.0%
Attack speed: 100%
Damage when this weapon hits: +8 fire / +4 acid / +11 nature
When wielded/worn:
Armour penetration: +6
Physical crit. chance: +3.0%
Disarm immunity: +15%
Resource leech chance: +30%
Resource leech: +6
Curse of Misfortune

Dropped by rogue
On fingers
c) Vargh Redemption
Type: jewelry / ring

When wielded/worn:
Changes stats: +4 Wil / +6 Con
Changes resistances: +10% nature / +25% cold
Maximum mana: +20.00
Maximum stamina: +20.00
Maximum air capacity: +50.00
It can be used to summon a tidal wave, costing 60 power out of 60/60.
d) Nightsong
Type: jewelry / ring

When wielded/worn:
Defense: +6
Fatigue: -7%
Changes stats: +6 Cun
Changes damage: +5% physical
Talent cooldown: Shadowstep (-1 turn)
Mental save: +13
Maximum stamina: +25.00
It can be used to activate talent Dark Tendrils (costing 40 power out of 50/50) :
Effective talent level: 2.0
Use mode: Activated
Power cost: 40 out of 50/50.
Range: 6.00
Travel Speed: instantaneous
Description: Send tendrils of creeping dark out to attack your target and pin them in the darkness for 3 turns. Creeping dark will trail behind the tendrils as they move. The darkness does 25 damage per turn.
The damage will increase with your Mindpower.

Dropped by Subject Z
Around neck
e) Feathersteel Amulet
Type: jewelry / amulet

When wielded/worn:
Fatigue: -20%
Maximum encumberance: +20

Light source
f) Wintertide Phial
Type: lite / lite

When wielded/worn:
Light radius: +1
Infravision radius: +6
It can be used to cleanse your mind, costing 40 power out of 60/60.
Main armor
g) grounding dwarven-steel mail armour of Toknor (3 def, 8 armour) (Shrouds)
Type: armor / heavy

When wielded/worn:
Physical crit. chance: +4.0%
Physical power: +5
Armour: +8
Defense: +3
Fatigue: +16%
Changes resistances: +6% lightning
Critical mult.: +12.00%
Stun/Freeze immunity: +20%
Curse of Shrouds

Dropped by skeleton master archer
Cloak
h) Cloak of Deception (Corpses)
[Plot Item]
Type: armor / cloak

When wielded/worn:
Physical power: +5
Spellpower: +5
Curse of Corpses

Dropped by Necromancer
On head
i) leafwalker's iron helm (0 def, 3 armour)
Type: armor / head

When wielded/worn:
Armour: +3
Fatigue: +5%
Changes resistances: +5% nature
Poison immunity: +11%
Disease immunity: +11%
Maximum life: +40.00
Healing mod.: +11%

Around waist
j) Rope Belt of the Thaloren
Type: armor / belt

When wielded/worn:
Changes stats: +7 Cun / +8 Wil
Talent mastery: +0.20 Wild-gift / Harmony
Mindpower: +12

Dropped by Weirdling Beast
On hands
k) alchemist's rough leather gloves of mighty criticals (0 def, 1 armour)
Type: armor / hands

When wielded/worn:
Armour: +1
Changes stats: +2 Wil / +3 Mag
Critical mult.: +6.00%
Blindness immunity: +10%
Confusion immunity: +11%

Dropped by skeleton warrior
On feet
l) invigorating pair of rough leather boots of rushing (0 def, 1 armour)
Type: armor / feet

When wielded/worn:
Armour: +1
Fatigue: -4%
Changes stats: +2 Str / +2 Con
Maximum life: +30.00
Movement speed: +10%
It can be used to activate talent Rush (costing 80 power out of 80/80) :
Effective talent level: 2.0
Use mode: Activated
Power cost: 80 out of 80/80.
Range: 7.00
Travel Speed: instantaneous
Description: Rushes toward your target with incredible speed. If the target is reached you get a free attack doing 120% weapon damage.
If the attack hits the target is dazed for 3 turns.
You must rush from at least 2 tiles away.

Dropped by Half-Finished Bone Giant
Tool
m) woodsman's iron pickaxe (dig speed 38 turns)
Type: tool / digger

When wielded/worn:
Changes resistances: +10% nature
It can be used to dig a wall, cut a tree, ..., costing 1 power out of 1/1.
Dropped by degenerated skeleton warrior