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Orc ambush change
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:50 am
by Susramanian
I fought through the orc ambush yet again today and realized some things that have been nagging at me for months: the event is unnatural, forced, doesn't fit with the rest of the game; the dialog has meaningless choices, and if we somehow beat it, there's nothing to reward us for our heroic feat. I'd recommend rewriting it. How about something like this for the actual conversation:
Code: Select all
newChat{ id="ambush",
text = [[#VIOLET#*As you come out of the Dreadfell, you encounter a band of orcs. Two of them step forward, one a battle-scarred monster of an orc, the other cowled and silent. The scarred orc grins at you.*#LAST#
We were just on our way in to get that very staff. Nice of you to fetch it for us.]],
answers = {
{"What are you talking about?", jump="what"},
}
}
newChat{ id="what",
text = [[#VIOLET#The cowled orc reaches out a bony hand, and The Staff of Absorption flies from your grasp! The orc catches it, turns, and walks through the ranks of his massed companions. The scarred orc shrugs.#LAST#
Don't ask me why he wants it. I just know that I wasn't looking forward to hacking through the whole Dreadfell to get it. Go ahead and ask me why.]],
answers = {
{"Why?", jump="why"},
}
}
newChat{ id="why",
text = [[#VIOLET#He gestures to the massed band of orcs behind him. They start forward, and you hear the unmistakable sound of many bowstrings being drawn.#LAST#
Because undead aren't edible, and I'm hungry. Now hold still.]],
answers = {
{"#LIGHT_GREEN#[Don't hold still.]"},
}
}
return "ambush"
Now the orcs have the staff, so we give the player a decision to make. Try to take it back (people seeing the encounter for the first time will probably try... once), or flee. Change the layout of the ambush zone so that you can easily get out of line of sight immediately and take an exit to the world map. Something like this:
Code: Select all
##############################
####.........................#
####....................ooo..#
#.<#....................ooo..#
#..#....................ooo..#
#..#....................ooo..#
#..@................o...ooo.o#
#..#....................ooo..#
#..#....................ooo..#
#.>#....................ooo..#
####....................ooo..#
####.........................#
##############################
One of those exits leads back into the Dreadfell, one to the world map. The tactical situation is much better than what we currently have, but there's also a powerful caster with the orcs this time. He and Ukruk together should be at least as challenging. They should both drop artifacts appropriate to their inflated level to give us incentive to stick around and fight. Death is permanent; no more of this specially-scripted "oh, they let me live for some reason" stuff.
Re: Orc ambush change
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:31 am
by Grey
Nice idea - I always thought the dialogue there was a bit silly. Would also give an escape route if you change your mind during the fight.
At the moment there's no reason not to try and fight - you might at least get some xp from killing a few lackeys. The idea of any sort of mercy from the orcs is also silly (especially if you happen to be a sun paladin). This change would make it more sensible and more cohesive with the rest of the game.
Re: Orc ambush change
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:06 pm
by Hachem_Muche
Don't forget that the orcs somehow intercept you if leave the dungeon by teleporting to Angolwen. Adding the caster could explain that, I suppose, but it would probably make more sense to just trigger the encounter when the PC reenters the world map (on top of Dreadfell). The staff can't be dropped or sold, so this should be safe.
Wide open encounters are pretty tactically unfriendly to melee characters, so add some trees to the battlemap for cover.
Re: Orc ambush change
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:11 pm
by escargot
This is indeed a good idea.
But I still think that the new proposed ambush location seems a bit straightforward. Considering the orcs in Maj'Eyal are heavily militarized and not just some stupid monsters, the ambush itself could be a bit better planned and not just a massive 3-columns squadron. There could be archers on the sides and maybe some orcs on your way out so that the escape route was at least a bit covered by the orcs. Trying to design a rather epic escape rather than an "Oops, wrong door. Gotta go!".
Re: Orc ambush change
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:54 pm
by Susramanian
Yes, the map needs to be different, along with the layout of the orcs. It wasn't intended to be an accurate representation of what we need, just to give these general ideas: no single-width corridors, no way to stay out of line of sight of the majority of the orcs for extended periods of time, yet guaranteed escapes at the start for those who don't want to risk fighting.
If the guaranteed escape feels lame, I'd be happy with an epic gauntlet, too. But it should be in line with the difficulty of the rest of the game; staying to fight should be vastly more difficult. Here's a map that will involve a more painful escape:
Code: Select all
#>############################
#..o..#...........#o.........#
#..#.....#o...............o..#
#............#o.....#o..o....#
#.......................o.o..#
#.....#o..#o...........o.oo..#
#..@................o...o.o.o#
#..#....................oo...#
#..#..#o......#o......o..oo..#
#.>#......#o............o.o..#
####.........................#
####...............#o........#
##############################
Ukruk, the caster, and the main body of the orcs are still to the east. They're probably far enough away that the player can escape without messing with them if he wants, but he's going to be getting chewed up by the closer orcs. The trees should keep the player from getting instantly annihilated by all the archers, though I imagine that will require some tuning. Maybe more trees.
The dialog might also need a different version if the character is an undead. And maybe part of the dialog can involve the caster slamming the doors to the Dreadfell shut behind the player-- probably at the same time he steals the staff. We don't want people stair-scumming a victory.
Re: Orc ambush change
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:11 am
by marvalis
Code: Select all
{"#LIGHT_GREEN#[Don't hold still.]"},
should be:
If the player has to decide an action, then it would make sense that it is written in active (in contrast to not doing something). If does not have to be 'attack', but preferably some active sentence like 'attack or run' or even 'Attack or run away safely' (to hint the player).
Re: Orc ambush change
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:34 am
by Susramanian
marvalis wrote:Code: Select all
{"#LIGHT_GREEN#[Don't hold still.]"},
should be:
If the player has to decide an action, then it would make sense that it is written in active (in contrast to not doing something). If does not have to be 'attack', but preferably some active sentence like 'attack or run' or even 'Attack or run away safely' (to hint the player).
should be:
marvalis wrote:I don't get it.
It's a comedic contrast between the orc's instructions and the character's action.
Well, *I* thought it was amusing, anyway.
Re: Orc ambush change
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:06 am
by madmonk
Susramanian wrote:Death is permanent; no more of this specially-scripted "oh, they let me live for some reason" stuff.
Regretfully death is not permanent unless you play on Rogue-like level.
Unless you make death really permanent on this occasion - regardless of level!
Otherwise I like the rewrite it makes a lot more sense.
Re: Orc ambush change
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:03 am
by Canderel
Couple of things to note.
- If death is permanent, make the escape route very easy.
- Undead characters won't feed the orcs.
- Add even more trees... about 10-20 more.
- Don't make a corridor of trees, it looks (and is) unnatural. (though the entrance to dreadfell could be mountains/hills/walls)
- So I escape, without the staff... shouldn't the orcs be an encounter on the world map, making their way to reknor? Which I *could* chase?
Re: Orc ambush change
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:07 am
by Deinos
I think the lack of death is appropriate in this situation, because of how the ambush comes out of completely nowhere; a PC who had utterly ZERO difficulty against the master and his flunkies got friggin trashed against the orcs.
If you are going to make the orc ambush be permadeath, you should give advance warning about the ambush... which is of course defeats the whole purpose of an ambush.
Otherwise, you're just serving up a major negative message to new players who don't read spoilers.
Re: Orc ambush change
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:17 pm
by Susramanian
You don't need to give advance warning. You just need to make it very clear to the player that...
1) This is a fight that will almost certainly kill them
2) They can walk away from it easily.
Re: Orc ambush change
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:25 pm
by Grey
A bit like the Melinda fight... though the danger may not be so obvious.