ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Orcish Fury is weak compared to most t1 racial talents. These are almost always left at 1/5, so Orcish Fury gives 11-16% damage for 3 turns. Compare to Thalore's Wrath of the Woods which gives 11-20% damage and 11-20% all resist for 5 turns, with the same cooldown. Then you have things like Halfling, Shalore, Doomelf, etc. Orc is really getting the shaft here.

Orcish Fury should last at least 5 turns, as this is the standard for t1 racials. It should also have either a larger damage bonus or a secondary effect. Currently, it's just a point tax to get the higher talents and has very little impact on gameplay. Personally, I would change it to 5 turns of 10% + 1% per visible enemy (max 20%) increased damage and increasef attack/spell/mind/steam speed by the same percentage. Increased action speed fits the "Fury" theme and makes it comparable to but distinct from other racials.

I'd be for changing this talent but I have to question it being weak. Essentially the talent lets you get 11% to 40% extra damage for 3 turns - scaling with enemies nearby, your Constitution stat, and Talent Level investment. That is nothing to scoff at and easily blows even the Thalore's meager Damage boost out of the water.

No one is going to put more than 1 point in it, so only the level 1 scaling matters. It would have to scale significantly with levels to be worth investing more points. The convention seems to be that t1 racials are one-point wonders with maybe one or two exceptions.

Imo we shouldn't buff 50% of the enemies in the game for no discernible reason, especially not with increased combat speed.

Keep in mind that the bonus scales with number of enemies visible, so for mobs it would basically always be min value.

Effigy wrote:Keep in mind that the bonus scales with number of enemies visible, so for mobs it would basically always be min value.

you're still effectively giving every orc 110% speed so eventually you'll run into one that double turns and kills you thanks to this buff

and does this does almost nothing for players

While I agree T1 Racials aren't usually that strong - the Orcish one 'can' be significantly quite strong in certain situations later on in the game. There are several instances where you'll be fighting multiple enemies at once and can benefit from the increased damage in the Embers of Rage campaign. The only real difference between it and other T1 Racials is that it isn't balanced to be as much of a one point wonder - rather it is one you need to invest in to get the most out of; and the racial is powered by Constitution so you'll need to invest a bit in that too.

I'm not sure if it being balanced to encourage more investing in Talent Points in necessarily a bad thing - though for the Embers of Rage campaign it is likely worth changing a bit since you will primarily want to play the Tinkerer classes - which are Generic Point whores.

@ster Maybe adding combat speed is the wrong choice, but I think it should have something more than it does now. It's objectively worse than other races' first talent.

Effigy wrote:@ster Maybe adding combat speed is the wrong choice, but I think it should have something more than it does now. It's objectively worse than other races' first talent.

Orc is an NPC only race. Why does it have to be buffed?

EoR race

It's almost as if NPCs and players shouldn't share abilities... who would have thought!

Orc heal is already pretty bad let's not make this even worse.

Mex wrote:It's almost as if NPCs and players shouldn't share abilities... who would have thought!

Orc heal is already pretty bad let's not make this even worse.

seriously, orc only has 1 good racial (the pride heal) and it's really obnoxious to play around. fixing EoR's horrible balance would take more than buffing something that will more likely affect enemies positively than players.

It's fine if players and npcs share abilities, but for those specific character types that do they should be balanced to not be annoying for players fighting against while useful for players to play with.

In any case Effigy I'll be charitable and start changing this discussion into one about 'changing' the talent. Here's an idea to pitch in for improving the racial:

Orcish Fury
Active Buff
Cooldown of 46-30 turns scaling with Talent Level
Instant Use Speed

Summons your lust for blood and destruction, especially when the odds are against you.

You increase your damage by 10% + 1%–6%cSS:con per enemy in line of sight up to 5 (max 10% + (1%–6%cSS:con * 5) ) for 3 turns.

If you kill an enemy while under the effects of Orcish Fury, the talent makes a check for number of enemies around you and resets the buff.

The damage bonus will increase with your Constitution.

A stray thought occurred, but notably there are two ways to improve talents - directly or indirectly. Here's an idea for improving Orcish Fury (and Pride of the Orcs technically) 'indirectly' - though notably for players and not for enemy Orcs:

Skirmisher
Passive

Orcs have seen countless battles, and won many of them.

You revel in the defeat of your foes, gaining [3]10%cTStD:Con + 5% damage resistance for 2 and reducing the remaining cooldown duration on your Orcish Racials by 1-5 turns.

The resistance will scale with your talent level and Constitution, the reduction on cooldown will scale with your Willpower.

Passively increase all damage penetration by 7–15%cTL:20%.

Davion Fuxa wrote:A stray thought occurred, but notably there are two ways to improve talents - directly or indirectly. Here's an idea for improving Orcish Fury (and Pride of the Orcs technically) 'indirectly' - though notably for players and not for enemy Orcs:

Skirmisher
Passive

Orcs have seen countless battles, and won many of them.

You revel in the defeat of your foes, gaining [3]10%cTStD:Con + 5% damage resistance for 2 and reducing the remaining cooldown duration on your Orcish Racials by 1-5 turns.

The resistance will scale with your talent level and Constitution, the reduction on cooldown will scale with your Willpower.

Passively increase all damage penetration by 7–15%cTL:20%.

So now summoners and a couple other pet classes have to deal with 5x as many pride of the orcs heals because a race that is literally never going to be played (and is fine anyway since lol EoR) got buffed.

There is no reason to buff Orc as long as the only campaigns it exists in are barely playable messes and perhaps your efforts would be better guided toward making Embers not suck, especially on high difficulty.