ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Title says it all. Since living races can have a nice split like three Infusions and two Runes, Undead has no such luxury making Runic Saturation highly problematic in longer battles. Reducing the duration of Runic Saturation from 10 to 5 on Undead to compensate for this would help improve their viability.

I like this idea. Perhaps we could go farther though and reduce the duration even further then that.

hmmm, i like the idea, but then all the undead npcs (and there are LOTS) would get the same buff...

jenx wrote:hmmm, i like the idea, but then all the undead npcs (and there are LOTS) would get the same buff...

literally a non-issue

jenx wrote:hmmm, i like the idea, but then all the undead npcs (and there are LOTS) would get the same buff...

how many undead npcs are surviving 5 turns and don't have talents more dangerous than runes

e: honestly just remove saturation, runes are really bad compared to infusions (the most you could really do is chain phase door rune forever since the CD on shielding runes is awful, and meanwhile normal races can keep up heroism permanently).

This would be a good change. It kind of makes sense from a lore standpoint too; since undead are unnatural beings, they don't need to be affected by runic saturation the same way living being are.

Effigy wrote:This would be a good change. It kind of makes sense from a lore standpoint too; since undead are unnatural beings, they don't need to be affected by runic saturation the same way living being are.

Would that have effect on players with lantern/belt "of unlife"?

St_ranger_er wrote:

Effigy wrote:This would be a good change. It kind of makes sense from a lore standpoint too; since undead are unnatural beings, they don't need to be affected by runic saturation the same way living being are.

Would that have effect on players with lantern/belt "of unlife"?

no because those things literally just exist to con you out of blood of life and do nothing else

(also i still wouldn't use runes because Ogre Master Race)

Sheila wrote:

jenx wrote:hmmm, i like the idea, but then all the undead npcs (and there are LOTS) would get the same buff...

literally a non-issue

why is that Sheila? Have I misunderstood something?

Basically enemy undead are going to die before it gives them much and the enemy AI isn't smart enough to play around saturation so a lot of enemies end up using all their Inscriptions at once. Maybe if you're unlucky they'll get one last Biting Gale Rune off before dying but it's largely a nonissue on enemies.

bpat wrote:Basically enemy undead are going to die before it gives them much and the enemy AI isn't smart enough to play around saturation so a lot of enemies end up using all their Inscriptions at once. Maybe if you're unlucky they'll get one last Biting Gale Rune off before dying but it's largely a nonissue on enemies.

Fair enough. I play almost entirely on madness and the shielding runes on undead are fairly massive later on. I was thinking this then might be a problem, if they can reset the shields quickly. Runic Bone Golems, The Master etc - I think it would be wise to double-check what happens if this change was made.

the other things I was thinking was, the cooldowns on many enemy talents is very long, so halving it for the runes might also lead to more use of runes by them.

(btw, I wrote two addons to improve the AI, in much older tome versions though, so I have a fairly good understanding of how they function, both dumb and tactical)

ster wrote: how many undead npcs are surviving 5 turns and don't have talents more dangerous than runes

Runes don't have to be more dangerous than other talents to make more use of them make it more dangerous, as lots of runes are instant.

Madness should have no bearing altogether as far as buffs are concerned though (nerfs are a different matter entirely).
I never encounter much trouble with undead using runes; there's the odd case where they disarm you properly or freeze you at a bad time but it's rarely an issue, having modified AI isn't really a problem with the runes or the game but what your addon ends up doing to you
I'd rather get hit by biting gale or acid wave than a stun at any point in the game though, and in the end if we worry about the implications for NPCs for every little thing (literally every little buff brings this argument up) we wouldn't ever change anything in the game, if something ends up being problematic it can be addressed later, but this is such a small change it shouldn't be.