ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

I find it unfair that regeneration effects - as far as I can tell - don't stack.

If I use Swallow, I'll heal for a small amount. I'll also get a regeneration effect for a third of that small heal, because of the Fungal Growth Talent. As far as I'm aware, this is passive and can't be turned off.

Combined with Wild Growth, I now have a long lasting, very minor regeneration effect that actually blocks me from using life saving regeneration effects. I have to manually remove my own healing in order to use better healing. It's not a smooth experience.

On the flip side, I may have a regeneration effect rolling, which is great. I may then use something like Nature's Touch for a strong heal. This would normally be accompanied by a decent regen tick, but because regens don't stack that regen is lost.

I'd like to see regeneration effects coming from different sources be allowed to stack. Obviously I shouldn't be able to equip a half dozen regeneration infusions and roll like 300 HP per turn or something. But two unrelated regens should be additive.

You can cancel any beneficial effect by right clicking it.

However, it might be helpful if regen effects could stack to remove this issue.

I want to discuss implementation of stacking regeneration effects, if it's fine for these topic.

Let say you have 200 regen infusion and 100 regen infusion. Strong infusion regen is about to expire(1 turns left, 200/5 = 40 hp for last turn). and you decided to activate a. second infusion / b.arcane reconstruction with fungal growth. How it should be stacked:

1. It's one source (regen infusion in both cases), then effect should be:
   1. replaced:
      1. replaced with a new one
      2. replaced with a instantly strongest one(compare regen per turn value)
      3. replaced with a relatively strongest (number of turns * regen per turn, pick the higher one)
   2. merged:
      1. average effect for regens and durations:

         Code: Select all

         total_regen = (regen1 * turns1 + regen2 * turns2); 
         effective_turns = (turns1 + turns2) / 2;
         effective_regen_per_turn = total_regen / total_turns 
         

      2. average effect for both regens, duration picked which is new one:

         Code: Select all

         total_regen = (regen1 * turns1 + regen2 * turns2); 
         effective_turns = turns2;
         effective_regen_per_turn = total_regen / new_effect_turns
         

   3. added - no matter that it's one source, add similar independent regen effect, which doesn't affect the old one.
2. for different sources: similar like in point a(replaces/merged/added, and how exactly).

I did something like this for damage shields, so it should be fairly easy to do it for regeneration. The tricky thing is that we can't make it always replace since some effects will have greater magnitude but lesser duration, or vice versa. The game can't know whether you favor magnitude or duration more, so I had to make some hard rules about when it will replace and when not. Merging the stronger magnitude and longer duration from different effects would be power creep, so we can't do that.

I think it is Wild Growth here that needs to be looked at, rather than regeneration. The weak regeneration effect that Wild Growth provides is usually an actual negative, for the reasons explained above. At the same time, it still gains you extra turns.

So the way it works out, Wild Growth ends up not being used for regeneration at all, but as an ability to gain extra turns, at the cost of a lot of micromanagement.

That is pretty bad and not at all what it was originally intended to be.

I say let´s change Wild Growth. If it simply provided a slight boost to the power of regeneration infusions, it would have exactly the effect that it was meant to have, and we would be rid of both the cheesy extra turns and the tiresome micromanagement.

please don't nerf fungal growth, stupid turn gain fuckery is all wyrmic has

e: just make them stack since you need a lot more than that to make antimagic, higher or wyrmic a solid choice

Well yeah, anti-magic and maybe wyrmic could use a buff.

But does this boost really have to come from gaining turns for bad and weird reasons? Is there really no other way? There are thousands of possible ways to improve anti-magic, why does it have to be this?

Having the ability to start your regen infusion instantly is cool, but gaining a turn because of an instant heal is a really weird side effect that makes absolutely no sense.

grobblewobble wrote:Well yeah, anti-magic and maybe wyrmic could use a buff.

But does this boost really have to come from gaining turns for bad and weird reasons? Is there really no other way? There are thousands of possible ways to improve anti-magic, why does it have to be this?

Having the ability to start your regen infusion instantly is cool, but gaining a turn because of an instant heal is a really weird side effect that makes absolutely no sense.

the thing is all this already exists, you just have to cancel your regeneration every time you want to use things like gift of the highborn, swallow, fungal web and nature's equilibrium to get turns which is annoying. the actual regeneration from fungal growth isn't hugely significant even if you could stack them.

What instant heal do people think they are gaining a turn from?
Cos Infusion: Healing can't trigger it.
Fungal Blood can.

Well, if Fungal Growth is the only problem, the obvious solution would seem to be to have it use a separate regeneration-like effect that doesn't block the usual Regeneration effect. I've whipped together a quickie implementation of that for testing purposes.

Having to constantly cancel regeneration effects to trigger new ones when you have fungus can be tedious, what would improve the experience would be if stronger regen effects automatically overrode weaker ones.