ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

In some games it's very easy to find some equipment to breathe under water, I saw this once in the 1st shop I visited, but in my current game, it's nowhere to be found, which is frustrating, I can't get to the fortress then, plus I guess the monsters guarding the entrance will be even more monstrous if I wait too much and become too high level... So it would be nice to have a way to get this as part of the scenario, like the archmage able to sell some default equipment for that if we couldn't find it anywhere else... Or any fixed place to get that no matter what...

you know that the first lvl has bubbles scattered around, while the second lvl, if underwater too, constantly produces its own bubbles right?

You shouldn't have too much trouble with the Sher'Tul Fortress if you simple clear the Old Forest (the zone before it) early and come back to do it later. In addition to what Radon mentioned as well, the water demons that may appear in the alternate Lake of Nur have a tendency to leave bubbles behind on their deaths, making it a bit easier.

Yeah, that level is almost entirely doable without water breathing, though it's annoying. While a main-game solution would be nice, it's worth mentioning that Zizzo has an addon to guarantee a water breathing item spawns in the Lost Merchant's shop.

astralInferno wrote:While a main-game solution would be nice, it's worth mentioning that Zizzo has an addon to guarantee a water breathing item spawns in the Lost Merchant's shop.

Specifically, Nur Kit, one of my always-on addons.

Well the fortress is entirely optional unless you plan on using the vault, and bubbles aren't too bad since you can rest on them and pseudo autoexplore by pressing z on top of them as well (assuming you're rested), you can easily get there with a bit of practice even without water-breathing! Tinkers also added an extra less random tool for water breathing if you MUST have it. Additionally, you can play yeeks, they have a bigger oxygen bar!
Waiting a few levels before delving into nur is actually a good idea, horrors aren't the friendliest enemies by far. A few levels and more talents/options can probably make it easier for you.

If you enter the Lake of Nur level 1 it will fix the level of the next few floors.
However, I don't think there is really anything to be gained by gaming the level scaling.

The best not-random way I can think of to breathe underwater is to play as an undead race.

Elsewise it's all about managing your air properly, using only the bubbles you need and even using the out-of-the-way ones if you think you may need to backtrack through a corridor that contains few bubbles, even TPing away from a difficult fight or turning around and taking a different route if you think your air supply might be put in jeopardy. In fact it's easy enough that I have run Lake Nur about a dozen times without any water breathing armor (because 80% of the time it's inferior to the armor I prefer to wear) and have never drowned (except the first time when I didn't know about the oxygen meter).

Ace0fSwords wrote:The best not-random way I can think of to breathe underwater is to play as an undead race.

You mean as a skeleton.


Anyway, my opinion on the subject is that since the bubbles are here, it is meant for you to explore the place without water breathing equipment. Making such item a 100% reliable find before lake nur kinda defeats the purpose. It also defeats the very purpose of an underwater level in the first place, unless it's done in some kind of metroidvania power you have to hunt for. And if that's the case, might as well do away with the bubbles entirely.

'Defeats the very purpose of an underwater level' seems odd when underwater levels are /really annoying/.

But then if there are people that like the challenge that's what addons are for.

Whether the Underwater levels are annoying or not really shouldn't be seen as a reason to revamp them. The map set lends to an interesting style of play - Sandworm Lair is arguable similar to that aspect with source of Teleport making life easier when needed.

However, a major thing to note is the reward for completing such levels. The Sher'Tul Fortress is a rather big reward that players likely want to unlock in their runs. It might make sense to add a means of making life easier for players 'after a certain point of play' to get to the Fortress. Maybe when you approach the Farportal in Reknor for example after defeating Golbug, you are unable to progress further until talking to the Butler in the Sher'Tul Fortress. You get told this by a second letter from the messenger - along with getting a Waterbreathing item at that point.

If there's people who find it really annoying, that's what addons are for
It's really not a good reason to rework something, and yeah, both of those dungeons reward you for your troubles. SWL by having the sandworm queen heart which gives a levelup's worth of stats and an extra locked category, on top of having a lot of treasure chests scattered about which can lead to you getting some really strong gear early in the game. Fortress by having the vault, storage space, farportal, training dummy, amongst other minor things.
I personally think it's fine to have to have to beat a challenge or annoyance for rewards, and I don't think it needs to be changed for instant gratification and endlessly making the game easier, there's addons and difficulty options for that.