ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

You know, with all the awesome reworks and teaks and new shiny-pretties of the last few versions, I noticed there's a humble, quiet class that really hasn't seen much attention recently... The poor, benighted Alchemist.

It is meant to be a beginner-friendly class, the intro to the caster-type, but frankly, it could use a bit of QoL, don't you think. Especially with the things that Embers proved could be done !

Specifically, I'd love to see two things done for them :

- Clearer info on their elemental infusions talents. Right now, the only thing we know for sure improves by leveling them is the added elemental damage. There's no data on how they proc their special effects, nor if those improve at all - the chance to blind/freeze/daze and such. A bit of clarification would be pretty awesome.

- Also, it would be a REAL help of the Transmo Chest could auto-extract gems from transmogrified metal stuff, the way the Extractor works for Tinkers. No more forgetting to extract gems, no more extracting the wrong stuff, no more burdening the party with junk when we Recall out... Sheer bliss !

Finally, I can't believe the Wyrmic got YET ANOTHER new tree out of Embers, yet the ONE vanilla class most likely to "get" steamtech is left completely in the lurch... Where are my Steam/Metal/Quicksilver/Techno/Gizmo/Whatver alchemy trees ? Okay, wishful thinking, but frankly, considering how overall lame the infusions trees are, a bit of technomagic certainly wouldn't hurt.

C'mon, pretty please with vanilla whipped cream and cute kittens on top ?

you can upgrade the transmo chest at cost of... i think 10 energy? once you unlocked the fortress.
also, i don't believe that lvling the infusions adds any chance to these effects, which may be why it is not displayed.

other than some polish, i don't think this class needs much changes. sure it may not be chronomancer lvl of polish, but at least its decent.

I think the Alchemist needs major QoL buffs, what with all its tier 1/2 talents being mutually exclusive.

Yeah, I do think the Alchemist could probably use some TLC in general, and was also quite surprised they didn't have a tree unlock out of EoR, seems like it'd be a natural fit for them.

(Steam power enhanced golems or something)

I honestly think we could use an offshoot more than the alchemist getting more love. Or at least another golem user that plays differently.

I had the idea once of a Psionic-based one, but other than that not much came from it. Maybe it revolves around the player setting up an advantageous situation for their golem with mental ailments when they come in? The golem itself would have to be a different kind too due to no magic, probably. Or maybe it wouldn't even be a golem, but some other kind of vessel/guardian.

Chronosplit wrote:I honestly think we could use an offshoot more than the alchemist getting more love. Or at least another golem user that plays differently.

I had the idea once of a Psionic-based one, but other than that not much came from it. Maybe it revolves around the player setting up an advantageous situation for their golem with mental ailments when they come in? The golem itself would have to be a different kind too due to no magic, probably. Or maybe it wouldn't even be a golem, but some other kind of vessel/guardian.

Steam tech one that works on their personal robot seems logical to me. Get a unique class of tinkers they can create to upgrade it etc.

But I do think the base alchemist should get a little love.

well, i guess i should add-
the fire storm is way overpriced.

also, yeah golem.
while you can support him with your bombs, and provide some covering fire with your channel staff, you cant really tweak the golem itself much.
You only get masteries (weapon/armour), gems, runes, weapons and that's it.
as for actual customization, you get 2 categories, and a point only 1 like every 5 lvls.

while class may hold better than the old warden, i guess i would not object be against a change to the golem. more golem focus would be nice.

Radon26 wrote:you can upgrade the transmo chest at cost of... i think 10 energy? once you unlocked the fortress.

You can ? And what does it do ?

Radon26 wrote:also, i don't believe that lvling the infusions adds any chance to these effects, which may be why it is not displayed.

Which makes them all the more sucky, TBH. And not displaying the base chance is weird - even if it doesn't go up, knowing wether it's 8% or 33% or whatever may make the difference between "meh but okay" and "you're kidding me right ?"

Radon26 wrote:other than some polish, i don't think this class needs much changes. sure it may not be chronomancer lvl of polish, but at least its decent.

The only decent things are the sheer damage potential of the bombs, fully leveled, properly used and with the right base gem, and what a well-euipped Goly can soak up in damage. Honestly, aside from the last two fire talents, every single one of the elemental talents is insultingly bad :

All the infusions, including Energy - mutually exclusive, lousy effects, poor scaling. One point things, not even wonders. Freeze can be useful, but having no way to know or improve its odds is annoying. Same with Blind. Daze (unguarranteed) is lame for a level-10 power.

Smoke Bomb - blocks my sight, takes FOREVER to recharge, duplicate a burn effect I'm more than likely to already have on everyone with the sheer size of my bomb.

Caustic Golem - nothing he can't do himself, and better, with his Eye Rays. Not to mention the Drolem unlock. Not worth points.

Caustic Mire - Would be decent if it said all ENEMIES, but as is, it's a great way to get your Golem damaged and killed.

Dissolving Acid - Meh damage, long recharge, removes only temp effect or mental sustains (with luck) when what we'd need is a way to get out of Fearscape.

Ice Armor - You'd get more milleage of sloting gems and putting heavy armor on Goly, and the cold damage conversion is too niche at best, detrimental at worse.

Flash Freeze - with such a short PBAoE range, I'd want a FREEZE effect, not a lousy pin that would let mages and archers and solipsists and whatever else shoot me while my Golem is stuck to the ground.

Ice Core - By the time you'll put points in this, everything will be killing you with much more than physical damage. And the Ice affinity is way too niche when you're already immune to your own bombs, in all likelihood.

Dynamic Recharge - This has GOT to be a joke, right ? This is supposed to be on par with Inner Demons or Aether Breach ? 0_o

Thunderclap - too little, WAY too late, and disarm is too rarely important to warrant the investment. Can't we get at least a guaranteed Daze or Stun by level 18 ?

Living Lightning - if a foe is within range 1-3, you're either killing it from behind Goly, or you're dead. And anytime you lose "at least 20%" of your health in one turn, you're quite likely to enjoy your extra turns on the Eidolon Plane...

No, I'm sorry, those need MAJOR "polish" at least. Frankly, when's the last time you didn't fully upgrade your basic bombs and Goly before you even THOUGHT of leveling all those ?

netphenix wrote: You can ? And what does it do ?

exactly what you asked for before. it auto extracts, instead of transmogrifying... or maybe it does both? was a while.
at least it gives you gems, IF you are a practitioner of such arts already.
if you are not, you will not get that option.

as for your listing of his talents...
allright, you make the alchemist look bad, and i cannot really make an argument of otherwise.

Actually, the alchemist itself isn't bad at all. The concept is great, the bombs ROCK (Well, the basic one, not the shockwave one), and the golem is very unique and flavorful, if a pain to micromanage sometimes - but that's an argument for every pet class. But a full half of its talent are clearly sub-par on normal, and pretty useless on anything Nightmare and above, where survivability is paramount.

Considering the amount of work that went on some of the advanced, locked classes, I just figured that the beginner, unlocked classes could use some attention too. :-p

I was wondering how difficult it would be to let you control the Alchemist and Golem at the same time. It wouldn't be an all the time sort of thing, but would let you control both when activated. The idea came from Hydraslayer, and controlling two characters at once is a very fun mechanic.

netphenix wrote: The only decent things are the sheer damage potential of the bombs, fully leveled, properly used and with the right base gem, and what a well-euipped Goly can soak up in damage. Honestly, aside from the last two fire talents, every single one of the elemental talents is insultingly bad :

All the infusions, including Energy - mutually exclusive, lousy effects, poor scaling. One point things, not even wonders. Freeze can be useful, but having no way to know or improve its odds is annoying. Same with Blind. Daze (unguarranteed) is lame for a level-10 power.

Smoke Bomb - blocks my sight, takes FOREVER to recharge, duplicate a burn effect I'm more than likely to already have on everyone with the sheer size of my bomb.

Caustic Golem - nothing he can't do himself, and better, with his Eye Rays. Not to mention the Drolem unlock. Not worth points.

Caustic Mire - Would be decent if it said all ENEMIES, but as is, it's a great way to get your Golem damaged and killed.

Dissolving Acid - Meh damage, long recharge, removes only temp effect or mental sustains (with luck) when what we'd need is a way to get out of Fearscape.

Ice Armor - You'd get more milleage of sloting gems and putting heavy armor on Goly, and the cold damage conversion is too niche at best, detrimental at worse.

Flash Freeze - with such a short PBAoE range, I'd want a FREEZE effect, not a lousy pin that would let mages and archers and solipsists and whatever else shoot me while my Golem is stuck to the ground.

Ice Core - By the time you'll put points in this, everything will be killing you with much more than physical damage. And the Ice affinity is way too niche when you're already immune to your own bombs, in all likelihood.

Dynamic Recharge - This has GOT to be a joke, right ? This is supposed to be on par with Inner Demons or Aether Breach ? 0_o

Thunderclap - too little, WAY too late, and disarm is too rarely important to warrant the investment. Can't we get at least a guaranteed Daze or Stun by level 18 ?

Living Lightning - if a foe is within range 1-3, you're either killing it from behind Goly, or you're dead. And anytime you lose "at least 20%" of your health in one turn, you're quite likely to enjoy your extra turns on the Eidolon Plane...

No, I'm sorry, those need MAJOR "polish" at least. Frankly, when's the last time you didn't fully upgrade your basic bombs and Goly before you even THOUGHT of leveling all those ?

This analysis is spot-on.

Smoke bomb is especially tragic. It is a skill that has been copied from the older Fire Alchemy tree, where it had a good use in combination with the old Heat skill. But in the new class tree it is completely pointless.

I love alchemists but the elemental class trees really, really need to be reworked. Also, I hate saying this, but energy alchemy is hardly worth unlocking.

Smoke Bomb blocks LoS.

You get force teleported into a room with a half-dozen spellcasters. Or open a door into a vault with the same number. Poof. Now they can't see you. On the other hand, you can drop a huge-radius bomb onto them sight unseen.

are you sure you are talking about the same smoke bomb?

because what you described sounds like rogue's smoke bomb.
pretty sure alchemist's ones extend burns.
or something like that... haven't checked his talents for a while.

Radon26 wrote:are you sure you are talking about the same smoke bomb?

because what you described sounds like rogue's smoke bomb.
pretty sure alchemist's ones extend burns.
or something like that... haven't checked his talents for a while.

Have you not read Smoke Bomb's description recently?

(Hint: It does what it says.)