ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

So, Con as a stat is hilariously bad. In fact a lot of the stats tend to be only good for how skills utilize them, rather than any bonus of the stat itself, but only Con is this blatant. An extra... 160 hp, at max, and whatever prodigies?

Well, what if instead of +4 hp per point, it was +0.5 hp per point per level, retroactively?

So 10 constitution base is 5 extra HP for every level you have. That would mean you'd have 250 more HP at level 50 without touching CON, or if you topped it out at 60 (unmodified)

(60*0.5)*50=1,500 extra hp at level 50, or if you somehow had 60 con at level 1, just 30 extra health.

That way people actually have a reason to care about the stat as anything other than a skill gate. Heck, could even tweak a prodigy or something that changes that to a 1:1, which would double the gain.

EDIT: It's also an idea to change HP/level adjustments (or add something to them) that adjusts how much each point of constitution is worth. That way a yeek pumping constitution could be less sqiushy, but nowhere near as unstoppable as an angry Dwarf barrelling down on you with a hammer.

While I think making Constitution more useful is a good idea, giving that much health would eliminate a lot of the benefit of races that have higher life ratings - a Shaloran with 60 Constitution would be beefy for example.

Maybe something else could be done like hit point regeneration or something.

Side note: enemies benefit from stats too. Not sure how high mobs Con is on higher levels though.

I suppose that does make them a bit beefy if they pump con, but then if someone pumps con, they're neglecting something else. Though I imagine there is the issue of Archmages and their ability to just steroid Magic and be just fine, with a healthy dose of Willpower.

... Maybe change the life-per-level a bit so it's instead a multiplier for the effectiveness of each Constitution point! So a Cornac would be pretty decently beefy, a Dwarf would be as tanky as a little mountain of muscle born from the stone of the mountain would EXPECT to be, and elves are still flimsy, and Yeeks stay squishtastic, but can become marginally *less* so.

I'll edit the main post with this part.

Before he took a break from development, Edge was planning an idea for a Con buff. http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=43678

Healmod/fatigue reduction fits well, and give undead a die_at bonus as currently their lack of Heroism (and other) infusion hurts a lot.

the only buff constitution needs is .3 crit reduction per point after 10, giving you 15% crit reduction at 60 constitution, making enemies with 15% or less crit chance be incapable of critically striking you

not crit shrug, but crit reduction, the other anti-crit stat

not only does it make sense but it would make constitution a worthwhile stat

if the devs won't do that then they could at least buff the hp on corrupted shell to scale with con in addition to the base 250 hp bonus, but preferably they would do that anyway because that prodigy is trash for all first-party race/class combinations including yeek solipsists who have 1.5 life rating

This would be ridiculously overpowered, 50 points in Con at level 50 would give 1,250 health making you essentially immune to death. Also would make enemies scale to obnoxious degrees since they can easily be like level 100 with 100 Con which is 5,000 health up from 400. I prefer a healmod bonus since it won't meaningfully buff enemies but it will be useful for players.

bpat wrote:This would be ridiculously overpowered, 50 points in Con at level 50 would give 1,250 health making you essentially immune to death. Also would make enemies scale to obnoxious degrees since they can easily be like level 100 with 100 Con which is 5,000 health up from 400. I prefer a healmod bonus since it won't meaningfully buff enemies but it will be useful for players.

...That's half the point. If you dump that many points in a stat defining how tanky and healthy you are, you should be tanky and healthy. Besides, it wouldn't be too hard to just lower the factor each point provides at higher levels. The numbers were just thrown out there, my point was that it could and should be changed to offer more than the chump change HP it does now, and making it give hp based upon level is a good way of doing that.

Snow wrote:

bpat wrote:This would be ridiculously overpowered, 50 points in Con at level 50 would give 1,250 health making you essentially immune to death. Also would make enemies scale to obnoxious degrees since they can easily be like level 100 with 100 Con which is 5,000 health up from 400. I prefer a healmod bonus since it won't meaningfully buff enemies but it will be useful for players.

...That's half the point. If you dump that many points in a stat defining how tanky and healthy you are, you should be tanky and healthy. Besides, it wouldn't be too hard to just lower the factor each point provides at higher levels. The numbers were just thrown out there, my point was that it could and should be changed to offer more than the chump change HP it does now, and making it give hp based upon level is a good way of doing that.

Other stats do not have close to as much impact except when affecting weapon damage. I mean, casters max Magic first and that only gives 1 raw spellpower and 0.35 raw spell save. This maybe boosts damage by a fraction of a percent per point outside the early game. Doing this would make Con scale disproportionately well when other stats don't even scale well except when using weapons, and I guess Cunning for crits but that's only 0.3% chance per point. People usually say Con is bad but the reality is most stats are pretty bad and Con just happens to be even more bad.

Snow wrote:

bpat wrote:This would be ridiculously overpowered, 50 points in Con at level 50 would give 1,250 health making you essentially immune to death. Also would make enemies scale to obnoxious degrees since they can easily be like level 100 with 100 Con which is 5,000 health up from 400. I prefer a healmod bonus since it won't meaningfully buff enemies but it will be useful for players.

...That's half the point. If you dump that many points in a stat defining how tanky and healthy you are, you should be tanky and healthy. Besides, it wouldn't be too hard to just lower the factor each point provides at higher levels. The numbers were just thrown out there, my point was that it could and should be changed to offer more than the chump change HP it does now, and making it give hp based upon level is a good way of doing that.

compare 50 points in let's say, str to your proposed con

str will give you a minor increase in encumberance/phys save (who cares) and phys power that will do little after rescaling (also PES but thats a whole different issue)

getting like 40 con, not unreasonable in insane, would close to double your hp in dreadfell on r/c combos with 12 life rating which is completely stupid

and by endgame i think the highest hp i've got was an ogre SP with ~2.2k or so. one of the literal highest base HP classes is getting 1.5x hp from just 50 con and this is before we consider how much more stupid this makes PES

finally changing con to affect things based on racial life rating will make ogre the actual master race so i'm cool with that.

tl;dr instead of being a worthless stat you want con to be the god stat. that's stupid (also the buff to enemies would be similarly bad, high peak stair guardians have about 100 con and are level 100+, and now they suddenly have double the hp! but you're unkillable now so it just takes longer. let alone what this would mean for normal pride/ HP enemies.)

No need to replay to a year old thread that was just bumped by a spam bot

Mordy wrote:No need to replay to a year old thread that was just bumped by a spam bot

i don't pay attention while playing tome and it seems like i don't pay attention on the forums either

Mordy wrote:No need to replay to a year old thread that was just bumped by a spam bot :D

Looks especially weird when the spam post is removed ;)