ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

I think we all agree that Afflicted, and Doomed in particular, need some work to bring them to the level of Chronomancy or Defiled classes in fun factor. While I’m not too sure what to change with the Cursed (it does have plenty of options, and I’m not familiar enough with it to know what needs changing), I do have concepts and ideas for the core Hate mechanic and the Doomed class. Let me be clear that I'm no coder, so this is an idea hook I throw out there in the hope someone with knowledge of LUA will pick it up !

Hate mechanic rework :

The issue with Hate as it stands right now is twofold - conceptual and mechanical

On a conceptual level, it is too close to Vim since it comes mostly from killing foes or from a couple skills that help gather it - making those skills mandatory the way Drain is for a Corruptor. Also, it seems weird to me that I’d feel more Hatred for a foes AFTER killing it rather than before.

I ran entirely by chance into the Experimental Hate add-on created by the remarkably talented Housepet. What he did was make it so Hate decayed to 50% out of combat, and killing a foe gave you a temporary hate regen. The idea is really neat, but I’d take it a step further.

New Hate mechanic :

• Hate decays rather fast out of combat, by 5 points a turn, down to a flat 20 if above it. While an Afflicted never runs out of sheer hatred on her own, she needs a target to build it up and keep it high.
• If under 10, Hatred regens up to it by 1 a turn out of combat. The core of self-hatred all Afflicted harbor never goes away entirely.
• Between 10 and 20, Hatred is stable out of combat.
• Spotting a foe and entering combat grants an immediate 0.5 Hate regen - there’s a focus for the inner turmoil !
• For every foe in sight/telepathy range, an additional 0.1 Hate regen is gained - how dare those fools gang up on us ?
• Elite and boss-class foes multiply this regen bonus by their rank - such awesome foes stoke the fires of our wrath
• Killing any foe grants a 10-turns 0.1 Hate regen - it takes time for the rush to die down.

This system would grant a base of Hate to insure no Afflicted is caught entirely flat-footed after an auto-explore. It also conceptually emphasizes the idea that Hate comes from living foes, not dead ones.
This system would work for all Afflicted

Doomed skills rework :

Shadows, One with Shadows and Punishment trees : no rework needed. Those are fine as they stand.

Force of Will : Deflection is rather laughable when compared to… Well, any defensive skill in the game, really. I’d change it so to make it really palatable :

Deflection :

• Absorbs 100% of damage taken, up to its current charge value, instead of 50%.
• Once the shield is down, a raging maelstrom of telekinetic fury surrounds the Doomed in radius 3, inflicting 20 percent of the deflected damage as physical over 3 turns. (Thanks stinkstink for the idea. Before that, was "On top of that, 50% of the damage absorbed is inflicted back on its source as physical damage as our mind lashes back with telekinetic fury.")
• The recharge value of Deflection is brought back to 15% of its maximum a turn.
• However, if it ever is brought down to 0 remaining absorption, it unleashes the storm effect and goes on cooldown for 6 turns as we catch our breath after resisting such an assault. It’ll charge faster than before, but could be temporarily brought down.

The idea here is that, like Bone Shield, Deflection is most useful at eating alpha strikes. Like Bone Shield, sustained or simultaneous assaults can quickly eat through it, but it’s more resistant against DoTs. on the down side, it’s unlikely to fully stop more than one hit (two maybe) but it’ll help soften the follow-ups as we close in on our foe. Considering the awful mobility and range of the Doomed, a chance to get in range of casters should be welcome.

Fear tree : I think it’s a great debuff tree, but I dislike the last power, especially since Afflicted are either melee (Cursed) or short range casters (Doomed). Getting the enemy to run away is rarely what we want. I’d change it so :

Mob Mentality :
Level 12/13/14/15/16, Wil 28/30/32/34/36
Use Mode : passive
Use Speed : Mind
Description : fear can take a life of its own, and it’s always harder to be brave when others panic. Any foe affected by a fear has a 10/20/30/40/50 % chance to spread it to other foes within a 2/2/3/3/4 radius around themselves each turn so long as they can see each other. A foe’s chance to be infected by a new fear is lowered by 10% for each fear it’s already experiencing.

Darkness : I like the idea of this tree, but I think we can all agree that it needs a buff to make it a valid choice instead of Shadows. Here’s my idea :

Darkness V 2.0

Call Darkness
Level 0/1/2/3/4, Cun 12/14/16/18/20
Use Mode : activated
Cost : 5 hate
Range : 5/5/6/6/7
Cooldown : 5
Use Speed : Mind
Description :
Focus your mind on a foe, gathering darkess around it. For the next 3/4/5/6/7 turns, it’ll be sourrounded by an inky caul which follows it, blocking sight for all foes and inflicting damage as the old darkness talent. At talent level 3, the caul spreads in a radius 1 around the target. At talent level 5, the caul spreads in a radius 2 around the target. You can see through your own darkness. The damage will increase with your Mindpower.

Striking Darkess
Level 4/5/6/7/8, Wil 20/22/24/26/28
Use Mode : activated
Cost : 5 hate
Range : 5
Cooldown : 6
Use Speed : Mind
Description :
Sends a torrent of searing darkness through your foes, doing darkness damage. There is a 25% chance the rushing darkness will blind them for 3 turns, and cause them to forget their target.The damage will increase with your Mindpower.

Spreading Darkness
Level 8/9/10/11/12, Wil 28/30/32/34/36
Use Mode : passive
Description :
The Darkess Caul takes on a malevolent will of its own. Each turn, it has a 15/30/45/60/75 percent chance of spreading to another foe in a 2/3/4/5/6 radius. Any foe within your Darkness has their saves lowered by 5/10/15/20/25% of their current value. A foe can only be affected by one caul at a time.The save loss will increase with your Mindpower.

Quickening Darkness
Level 12/13/14/15/16, Wil 28/30/32/34/36
Use Mode : activated
Cost : 10 hate
Range : 10
Cooldown : 15/13/11/9/7
Use Speed : Mind
Description :
You temporarily merge with your Darkness, cleansing yourself of 1/1/2/2/3 magical effects. You can then reemerge on any tile within sight and range that is also shrouded in Darkness. You must be standing in Darkness to activate this power.

One With Darkness : Also, to compete with Shadows, Darkness needs a new high-level tree. I offer you a brand new tree/

One With Darkness :

Oozing Darkness
Level 10/11/12/13/14, Wil 22/24/26/28/30
Use Mode : activated
Cost : 5 hate
Cooldown : 20
Use Speed : Mind
Description :
For 4/5/5/6/7 turns, you Leave trailing Darkness where you walk or stand. The Darkness is placed automatically every turn and lasts 4/5/5/6/7 turns. At talent level 4 or greater, the Darkness will expand to a radius 1 area from where it is placed. It affects all foes as Call Darkness, including sight, damage and the added effects of passive powers.

Sheltering Darkness
Level 14/15/16/17/18, Wil 30/32/34/36/38 
Use Mode : passive
Description :
Your gather Darkness around yourself in a protective cloak. As long as Oozing Darkness is in effect, you have a chance to avoid any attack (as Leaves Tide) as your Darkness conceals and shelters you. The effects will increase with your Mindpower. (Again, thanks stinkstink for the better approach.)

Frightening Darkness
Level 18/19/20/21/22, Wil 38/40/42/44/46
Use Mode : activated
Cost : 11 hate
Range : 5/5/6/6/7
Cooldown : 20
Use Speed : Mind
Description :
Most creatures fear the dark, and you remind them why they are right to do so. As long as it stands within your Darkness, you can inflict a given foe with a random fear. At talent level 1, you can inflict Paranoid or Despair. At talent level 3, you can also inflict Terrified or Distressed. At talent level 5, you can also inflict Tormented. The fear lasts for 8 turns, and is affected by any of the Fear tree effect you may have unlocked. The target also has its fear immunity and mind saves lowered by 15/30/45/60/75% of their value with regard to Fear powers exclusively.The effects will increase with your Mindpower.

Smothering Darkness
Level 22/23/24/25/26, Wil 46/48/50/52/54
Use Mode : passive
Description :
The weight of your unnatural darkness weights even more heavily on your foes as your caul hinders their very movements. They suffer a 5/10/15/20/25 percent global speed penalty while affected by your Darkness. Also, their evasion and resists (except « resist all ») are lowered by 10/20/30/40/50% of their current value. The effects will increase with your Mindpower.

Dark Sustenance : With the new Hate mechanic, Feed would need a slight rework :

Feed :
Your furious mind reaches out and brushes against your target's, drawing strength from it even as you mentally recoil in hatred. You gain 2/5/8/13/18 Mindpower as long as you're in sight of it and Feed from its mind. You also absorbe 0.2 / 0.4 / 0.6 / 0.8 / 1 Hate per turn on top of the gain you get from being in presence of foes.

Survival, Cursed Form, Cursed Aura, Gestures : I don't feel any of those need a rework, they do their job and do it well.

I don’t pretend the values listed here are definitive or even balanced - I’d need people more used to coding for ToME to help review them. But they should give an idea of the power level I’m envisioning for each power.

I’m open to comments, criticism, and can only pray someone will feel up to the challenge of turning this vision into a coded reality. :-p

There are some very nice ideas here, although I have a couple things to nitpick

netphenix wrote:Deflection :

• On top of that, 50% of the damage absorbed is inflicted back on its source as physical damage as our mind lashes back with telekinetic fury.

A sustain that grants damage reflection seems like the type of ability that's much more deadly to the player than NPCs, so I'd personally drop that aspect.

You learn to attune your hate to the cold darkness you summon. No Darkness power can impeed your sight in any way. Also, The darkness both slows the reactions of your foes and weakens their protection. Any foe within your Darkness has their defense and armor lowered by 10/20/30/40/50% of their current value.

Doomed generally won't care about enemy armor or defense as they'll likely be using Psiblades, which gain accuracy from their primary stat and have enormous armor penetration, or Gestures, which are more for support than damage. I'd put Dark Torrent as the first talent in the Darkness tree, as having an attack with decent range at level 1 would help starting Doomed immensly, and bump Call Darkness to tier 2 and have it grant dark vision.

Sheltering Darkness
Level 14/15/16/17/18, Wil 30/32/34/36/38 
Use Mode : passive
Description :
Your gather Darkness around yourself in a protective cloak. As long as Oozing Darkness is in effect, you gain Evasion (as the talent but based on Mind power) as your more easily avoid attacks while within Darkness.

I think replacing the evasion with incoming effect reduction and a 10-20% chance to cancel any damage taken like Leaves Tide would make this more generally useful while not punishing players running melee characters who run into a Doomed boss.

Hey ! That was a fast review.

I like your suggestions, I'll update the original post to reflect them (with credits). I think I'll keep Call Darkness as a level-0 power though, since it's iconic of the whole tree, and put Striking Darkness (the reworked Dark Torrent) at level 4.

It's still earlier than we used to have it, and I think it would overshadow (no pun intended) both Punishment and Force of Will at level 1. I personally dislike the idea of powers so buff you feel you need to take them at level 1 to have a viable build... But that's just me.

I also added my thoughts on the Doomed Generic trees.

Anyhow, great ideas. Thanks for the Feedback !

My eyes, on this thread I have them

Doomed is my most hated class (no pun intended) with which I seem to have no luck.
By reading that suggestion it does not only make me stoked about playing the class, but it makes me fricken afraid.

I always see Doomed as itty bitty little gremlin covering in shadows hoping the enemy doesn't see them. This idea and especially the One with Darkness tree makes me think of that huge engulfing darkness monster under my bed and in my closet.
This is really good.

IF I could code I'd jump on that class idea right away. Since I can't I can only offer my body as an avid play tester for the class.

Edit: While at it I just want to complain about the item curse tree. The last skill, the self fighting weapon is really boring as is the one before that, cursed ground I think. The first two skills are nice but the levels on the first skill can never be reached in the base game. That needs to change to make it more play worthy. Not necessarily more powerful but more fun to play.

More curses is one thing thatd be nice. Right now there's not much need to switch gear from the optimal but after you find item with wrong curse you might want to look toward the second best item with desirable curse. That would bring the item playing to whole new level.
Tinkering with items (wink wink, if you know what I mean) and Demonologist demon binding is where the item play shines as well, the difference being they're both just power increasing stuff due to high amount of materials to use and switchability on items while the curses items can't switch the curse.
I like the idea of permanent increment better than endless switchability.

Wow, my first serious post here and it rates the attention of Darkgod itself... Be still my beating heart !

I'm flattered. Also all the more sad that I can't code to save my life... But hey, that might help get interest from those who can, so, YAY !

*slowly collecting hate ideas to create a terrible hate gestalt nightmare, or an Afflicted revamp, its hard to be sure*

DarkGod and HousePet? Damn dude. Way to go.

Am I only one who likes current iteration of darkness. First 2 out 4 talents are good source of debuff generation, and pretty strong with mental tyranny. Secon creeping dark pretty well shrouds, and allows to get closer to casters,no one but you can see through it.
If you ask me only tendrils need change, I'd made them always spawn dark trail, and explode in creeping dark once they either expire or catch someone.
As well as inherit movement speed from your second skill inside creeping dark.
Blinding ray also leaves creeping dark.

Your variant lacks one reason to take creeping darkness it is damage boost inside creeping dark. Things I'd change is gesture of deflection which by end game blocks laughable numbers even when gestures are enabled. The only thing I found it useful is, to spam self dots, for curse of madness horrors.

That shield needs regen boost, because Bone shield you can work up with shielding rune, this one not sure and it is pretty weak in both cases.

Would disagree about fears, run away is pretty good skill, all others just meh and too random and costly for their worth. 20 hate for 1 target disable and maybe someone in 2 range is too undewhelming, to use anywhere but item(If such item even exists). What I would like to see is all those passives to be changed to give fears too and make this cheaper, othervice they are pretty bad.

Like first skill 6 hate give random fear to target.
Second 14 hate instill fear to everyone at point at range of 2
Third 20 hate add extra effects to fear, as well as add aditional fear to targets with fear. 40 total hate a lot but we get 3 with potential of 6 fears on target, instead for huge cost 1 random fear with potential of 2. Making fear indicing item mandatory if it exists

The issue with the current creeping darkness is that it can be unreliable in larger spaces because it's comepletly RNG based. netphenix, have you considered changing the cursed body generic tree to a cursed mind tree? That's something I've heard a couple of people talk about. The cursed body tree is clearly more geared towards Cursed.

It is pretty reliable at lvl 5 at large spaces, and once you know how LoS works it is not problem to hide. In fact it outreaches far away from it's original 2 range, and usually you want to max it for this reason well and extra damage while in creeping dark, there is no other reason othervice damage is pretty small from creeping dark itself, pretty decent skill on my book, and unlike most other skills quite original and useful once you learn how to use it, and far more reliable then stun, slow confuse or blind for whole game because it doesn't care for immunities or saves, it just covers view and beacons or keeps casters at place due to LoS loss.

Just saying a ranged caster with Stealth might be a bit too powerful, but Stealth on Doomed would really fit well into theme.
I need to actually play an Adventurer with Doomed trees + Stealth.

Hey folks ! Those are some valid remarks you have. Let me try and address them :

DarkGod and HousePet? Damn dude. Way to go.

That fact actually broke my brain for a bit. But I'm recovering fine, according to the docs. This does sound like a signature in the making though.

Bormoth :

Regarding the current Darkness, I agree with both you and Micbran. It IS way too random to be reliable, until you get it to 5 points in BOTH first powers (to get it to spread reliably AND get to see all the way through it.) The issue is that, for most Doomed, it's too little too late. My aim here is to make Darkness a valid support choice for Punishment or FoW right at level 0, the way Shadows are.
Compared to Shadows, which give you a quasi-immediate and far stronger return, you can't really afford to sink 10 class points into the current Darkness tree right away. This would leave you with ONE, random, weak, unreliable active power that's quite unlikely to kill anything for you. Most Doomed would rather sink those 10 points into Punishment, Force of Will, and/or Shadows. At best, you can expect to have a usable Darkness power at level 15 or 20. That's... sub-par to be frank. Doomed have a hard enough early game as is.
Is the current Creeping Darkness fun ? Heck yes. I also like it... On paper. Is it reliable and useful ? Well, not so much, frankly. At least, not compared to Shadows. In my mind, it suffers from the same issue as Fears : the concept is really neat. The implementation is conceptually fun, effectively disappointing.

Regarding the movement and damage boosts, I did indeed remove them. Several reasons for that :

• The movement boost is neat, but relies on something that's randomly placed. The way Darkness works right now, you either have to hope it spreads right, or invest in the last two powers - both of which almost everybody agrees aren't worth their point cost. There's an even chance you'll end up with a clear ground patch right across the path you need to sip through, which renders your speed moot, most likely just in time to eat a faceful of fire/steel/Goo/what-have-you. I chose to replace it with a targeted teleport into your targetable dark patches - it's more reliable, if not as conceptually fun, and it takes enough time to set up and reload that it doesn't really break the idea of "slow-moving casters" for Doomed.
• The damage boost is awesome, but I got rid of it because, frankly, I felt it would be unbalanced. My new trees add a low-level beam, a targetable, contagious AoE, a bevy of debuffs and some neat defense for the caster. I had to draw the line somewhere, and so it had to go. The last, level-22 power does lower resists though, and that's just one of the ways a Doomed can do so. Frankly, in all the Doomed I (tried to) play, DPT was never the issue. Survivability was. Darkness is meant to be a debuff-them-into-powerlessness tree, not a kill-them-fast one. We got three other branches for that.

As for Mental Tyranny, my current Darkness tree works just as fine with it, and even better - it's still a DoT that hits enemies for medium damage... in a reliable way. MT doesn't care about how high the mind damage is, just that it's there. It'll work just as well as it used to in that regard. That's my reasoning, at any rate.

As far as Fears are concerned, I think the idea of spreading the types of fears across the powers is sound. Unlike Diseases, those have discreet effects that don't really overlap. Unlike Poisons, they don't work in discrete sustains that you'd unlock with one power. That being said, I must agree, upon re-reading the tree, that the way the first power works is even less reliable and more random than Creeping Darkness (that's saying something...) so I'd offer the following rework :

Fears:
Instill Fear
Requirements : Level 0/1/2/3/4, Wil 12/14/16/18/20
Use Mode : activated
Cost : 8 hate
Range : 8.0
Cooldown : 6
Use Speed : Mind
Description :
Instill fear in your target, causing one of several possible fears that lasts for 8 turns. There is also a chance of instilling fear in any foe in a radius of 2/3/4/5/6. Each tile of distance from the epicenter lowers the chance of fear by 14%, to 86/72/58/44/30%. The target can save versus Mindpower to resist the effect, and can be affected by multiple fears. You gain 2 new fears: The Paranoid effect gives the target an 31%/43%/52%/59%/60% chance to physically attack a nearby creature, friend or foe. If hit, their target will be afflicted with Paranoia as well. The Despair effect reduces the target's resistance to all damage by 25%/34%/41%/47%/52%. Fear effects improve with your Mindpower.

That way, you'd be sure to fear your target, have a REALLY good chance of fearing anything close to it, and a smaller chance to fear stuff further away. It's still a bit random, but it has a MUCH better chance of actually affecting a mob, instead of just a couple minions in it. Add to it the Frightening Darkness advanced power and my new Mob Mentality power, and you can turn a mass of enemies into quivering wrecks.
Of course, rares and elites can and will do the same to you... How good is your Mental save again ?

About Deflection : nothing stops you from using a shielding rune with it... Except, of course, going Anti-magic. But then you got other "shields" that synergize well with it... I agree that Deflection remains weaker than most shields, but look at it that way : it's a no-cost, no-fuss, self-regenerating defense. The only thing even remotely like it is Bone shield, and you can't get manaclashed out of this one. I HAD to keep it weaker to avoid breaking balance, and I'm sure whoever codes this will be even more drastic than I am.

Concerning Gesture of Guarding, I have to concur that the current numbers don't make it worth using, especially since it only protects in melee. By the time we have points to put in it (probably around level 20 or 25 at best, considering how generic-hungry Doomed are...) most melee attack hit for over 100 in damage, but we're unlikely to block more than 5 of it. I'd consider either raising the number to a flat 100% of your own melee damage, and/or allow it to avoid any on-hit or secondary effects from such attacks. Because nothing will ruin your day like taking 95% of a hit AND being dazed by it when you invested 5 points in a level-12 power...

Finally, I have to agree with you that my new Hate mechanic would probably require a rebalancing of power costs. I leave THAT to beta-testers and coders.

Micbran :

I have to disagree with you about the Cursed Form tree. We get just as much healing from kills, immunities, added damage from pain and stat boost as they do. Grim resolve may slightly favor Cursed, who use both Will and Strength, over Doomed, but that's nitpicking. Actually, Unnatural body works better for us once we have some decent AoE to kill a roomfull of critters a turn, so that balances out.

The only thing I'd add to it, based on the new Hate mechanic, would be this, to each power :

As you grow more powerful in your cursed state, your inner hate grows faster. Upon unlocking this power, you gain an added .1 hate regen a turn while in combat

So, with Unnatural body alone, you'd get .6 hate a turn while in combat with a single minion, and with all four unlocked, .9 (plus Feed, added regen from multiple foes, and higher regen from ranked enemies.) That might actually make the last two worth unlocking at least. I would also make the shrug-off effect of Grim resolve permanent, because that would synergize great with Unflinching resolve. :-p

Faeryan :

I actually considered using Stealth mechanics in my new One with Darkness tree... But that brought Doomed too close to Shadowblades in my mind. Maybe someone can use this to create a new Vigilante class ("I AM THE NIGHT !") but that wasn't my aim here. Do let me know how that Adventurer fares though, I'm curious that way.

Phew, that was a mouthful... Did I forget anything ?

Well actually I used the lvl 1 darkness for like 2 or 3 tier 1 dungeons, mostly because I made shadows build and was hard pressed to put on second skill and shadows quickly to scale as soon as possible. Btw not convinced on many one with shadows as good spenders, never maxed them.
And even then you don't need to max first skill really lvl3(you get it on lvl 2) is enough to make use of it in most cases, unless you like get caught in open, and I'd got it earlier if wasn't pressed by shadows first 3 skills to be maxed quick.
Creeping Darkness doesn't need Second skill to get you out of view reliably, and I long hovered one point there, and maxed third skill. Well it was so-so, but still something to hit enemies with and can crit. So if you really want you can get lvl 5 creeping dark at lvl 4(Your first boss). And as for seeing it is not that useful, they don't see you they, come to you, it is enough to shorten distence, and you wouldn't hit projectile for one reason, they don't see you, so they basically go to where they think you were. Treat it like rush, but it beacons enemy, and boosts damage.

I don't care much about fears being random, more the fact, you just need to have item for it. Like 1 in 6 chance to get something you need, and then 6 turns after one more, really? If I could insitll 3 fears in 3 turns, I wouldn't cared too much of randomness, becaus eventually I'd get all fears, or some of them. (How you say fears already act, but in range of 2 and have flat 50%) There is better and more reliable way to debuff in aoe for doomed.

You also miss idea of doom. His main idea is cross synergy from almost all skills.(creeping dark is really helpful, shame tendrils so slow, bossts damage, Punishments give debuffs(If it is correct tree), ,torment gives crit damage, feed has it's own plusses, and gestures give debuffs on resistances. Like almost all skills, help your other skills. And they quite strong once you can make your synergies running. The only wish is to have less utterly useless skills, Deflection really, well only reason it would be maxed is for crit damage, and even there I with easy heart cut it for debuff on mind damage. Gesture of guarding is same it is pathetic, really gives you nothing, well maybe except counter, may save turn to lower resists, in melee. So if it possible, turn disables to dots(with cooldown ofc) or accelerate debuffs, dealing some damage or something like this it would be more appretiated then that 30 block at very high level level would be more welcome.
Fears are just useless because it is one talent toy to use and most likely nothing happens drastic so why should i take them, there is no synergy with other skills except last 2 fears, there is no reliability on disables to help yourself live, and require you gazing on target hoping fear would prolifirate in time it would be irrevelant, and only to expire shortly, you can't even spam them, because their current cost is so high. It is just I affect target with random stuff which is on par with any other more reliable skill, maybe someone else would get affected, maybe they fail to resist, but it does nothing in mass fights because you want all of them affected.

Compare it to deseases which have strong synergy(pretty close, to fears). You get two deseases just from tree, and then any blight hit makes new deseases and spreads them. So you get all deseases, in maximum 3 turns, and then there is 2 other skills that are strong on their own and synergies with deseases, one of them deals strong single target damage and spreads all deseases in huge range, other in small range expunges them anddeals tons of damage to every mob, reapplying them back with epidemic and they are even stronger due to how strong hit is(which is random, but it, still tons of damage, and the random effect worth it and feels good).

I think it would be really cool if shadows had some part to play with the darkness tree. Maybe the advanced shadow tree could make them radiate darkness or trail creeping darkness. I just always found it weird that darkness and shadows have no real synergy.