ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

This mainly pertains to Arcane Blade and Shadowblade, but any character that gains a mana-based talent could be affected as well. The problem is that characters who aren't Mage or Adventurer metaclass are forced to use a Manasurge rune or mana regen items, or they can't regain one of their main resources at all. No other class has to waste an early-game inscription slot just to enable regaining their resources while resting.

This problem is compounded by the fact that Arcane Blade and Shadowblade are both melee-oriented classes, so they need a Movement infusion to avoid stuns and pins during the early game. Basically every class needs a Shielding/Regeneration inscription and a Wild infusion. If you only have 3 inscription slots and you're forced to take a Manasurge rune, you have to give up one of these other essential inscriptions. Meanwhile, they aren't really gaining anything beyond the Mage and Adventurer metaclasses to justify having to sacrifice this inscription slot.

I can't see any good reason that these classes don't automatically get some amount of mana regen while resting. If it's a lore thing, some kind of lore-friendly handwave could easily be added to explain why these classes have mana regen.

I think this issue may also be present for characters that get equilibrium-based talents without the Meditation talent. That's less of a concern, but I think it would be good to give a basic level of recovery while resting for equilibrium as well.

Shadowblade gets a skill that gives basic mana regen.

Sure, so does Arcane Blade, but those aren't available until level 8 and lowbie characters may have a hard time affording the sustain costs. It just makes little sense that a basic resource like mana regens for some classes but not others.

pretty sure arcane feed uses stamina for sustain, so there shouldn't be a problem there.

if mana is not your main resources, you most likely have quite a bit of it in storage, and probably wont be using much of it.
i once found a hat that gives "arcane eye" talent, and i used it quite a bit, and eventually ran out. but did that caused me a problem?
since i wasn't using any mana for combat, this did not hinder me in the slightest. and shortly i would lvl up and get a full restore.

do you know of any spell, that is not a sustain, and can be of help in combat?
and can be obtained by a non arcane class ofc.

personally i don't have anything against mana regen for everyone but...
if you cannot prove that its needed... then its not needed.

now, are they the movement infusions REALLY necessary early on? for the arcane blade, you can just blast your target with a fireball.

how about 1% of spell power?
that way you start with like 0.1 regen, but eventually get to like 0.75 in later lvls? that way the rune would not be necessary, although still nice.

Take Arcane Blade as an example. At level 8 you'll want to be sustaining Arcane Shield (50 mana) and possibly Shielding (40 mana). If you add in Shock Hands (40 mana) to get some mana regen without a Manasurge rune, you'd have 130 mana in sustain costs. That's an absurd amount for a level 8 character. Even dropping Shielding, 90 mana at level 8 is a big deal. So you're basically stuck taking Manasurge and giving up a more useful inscription.

Shadowblade's mana regen sustain costs 40 stamina instead of mana, but stamina is also a precious resource at this stage. Most of the Shadowblade attacks cost 15+ stamina before fatigue. Being forced to give up 40 max stamina at level 8 just to drop Manasurge is no fun, albeit less crippling than the sustain costs of Arcane Blade.

I'm fine with Manasurge being a long-term tool for resource management. I just don't want to be stuck using one in t1 dungeons because of some arbitrary class limitation. Can anyone tell me why it's good for the game to have this restriction on which classes naturally regen mana?

arcane feed takes 20 stamina, and i don't sustain my shield enhancers early on.

all the characters that have mana regen, get it from talets in which they have to invest.
arcane feed, shadow feed, disruption shield, consume soul, throw bomb.
(ignore the lvlup refill pls)
gathering mana is not easy, and only those who specialise in using it know how to gather it, and all styles of magic also have different ways of gathering it.
(the only exception to the second part being Solipsist's "conversion"... they are not magic users.)

so what about my idea of 1% of SP?

Just to be clear, some classes do actually get natural mana regen while others don't. To my knowledge, Adventurer or Mage metaclass are the only ones that get it naturally. Talents to help regain mana faster are a separate thing; I'm just talking about the basic mana regen while resting.

Making the mana regen based on 1% of spellpower seems pretty reasonable. That would be about 0.1 at low level (fine for resting between fights) and ~1 at endgame (a minor boost but nothing gamebreaking).

A good solution would be that the first point invested in any tree that uses mana gives a small mana regen. Maybe 0.01. Much too small to be useful in combat. But sufficient to regen mana while resting, without the tedious item swap.

ghostbuster wrote:A good solution would be that the first point invested in any tree that uses mana gives a small mana regen. Maybe 0.01. Much too small to be useful in combat. But sufficient to regen mana while resting, without the tedious item swap.

That's a good idea.

hmm define investing? do escort rewards count?
can you even have a mana bar, without having a talent that is using it?
why is the point spent even necessary?

You won't get a mana bar at all unless you have a mana-based talent.