ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

This is a thread set outside of the artifact thread because I was hoping to discuss belts. This game has some very, very powerful belts but so few of them. I also think there is some room to help some other classes and I figure this a good area to address it.

Here are some thoughts on belts:

1. Unique abilities with trade-offs… I was thinking that belts could offer some one-off, entirely unique abilities such as:

Movement speed increases as life decreases that ranges from -10% at 100% life to +200% at 10% or less life - The Cilice.

Grants Aegis talent +1 at the expense of reduced heal mod.

Changes regeneration infusions and talents into 1-turn direct heal effects… this would affect fungus, arcane shielding, etc., at the cost of -15 all saves and -10 life per hero level.

Grants +.3 to any category in which you've invested 20 talent points at the expense of -.1 to all categories with less than 20 talent points invested.

Damage reduction… shaves 20 damage off of every attack at the expense of reducing all resistances 15%.

2. Belts should be the main artifact that gets the +resistance cap bonuses.

3. Belts should offer carrying capacity bonuses as standard.

Thoughts?

Here's an example that I like:

Belt of Bone

+5 armor
+10% armor hardness
Telepathy: undead
+100 mana
+25 physical damage on melee strike (when you hit an enemy)
+25% disarm resist.

1. I am not sure why single belts specifically for trade-offs. Also none of your examples feel particularly interesting or 'belty' to me.

2 & 3. Isn't it already the case that there is a very common +carrying capacity ego for belts? Not artifacts, but still, belts. It is true that belts and girdles are generally associated with strength (and protection, for the +resistance thing)in myth, though, so I can see this making sense.

I do agree more artifacts belts would be good, though. For an undead/afflicted-themed one, something about cursed chains, the kind spectres/ghosts stereotypically rattle/shake?

I also agree that more belts would be nice.

That said I think Girdle of Calm Water needs either a serious nerf or to be moved to a higher tier.

edge2054 wrote:I also agree that more belts would be nice.

That said I think Girdle of Calm Water needs either a serious nerf or to be moved to a higher tier.

It's great and I could indeed see it being more balanced if it got +1 tier, but I'd rather suggest we got more 'deserving' belts at that tier... is it truly that much worse than other artifacts you can get around that level?

Granted, the fact that it's generally useful (unlike so many other arts) might be the problem...I think most characters can get A LOT of benefit out of it...

A lot of people will wear Girdle of Calm Waters the whole game.

Part of the problem is that we don't have a lot of good artifact belts. The other part is that it's really really good for the tier it's at.

Belts can get the noble ego, which reduces damage against summons. I'd like to see an artifact that's the opposite - reduces damage against everything but summons. (Or maybe just be really good overall and increases damage from summons.) Something like "X's Last Stand", where the expert duelist guy fell against a huge army of enemies?

In general, since belts so far are really the only slot that has a specific damage reduction ability like this (probably?), I think it's good to focus on. The system's pretty flexible too - for example, we could make an ice belt that reduces damage from "burning" enemies - Faeros, and anything that's currently on fire.

I'm in favor of just moving Calm Waters up a tier or two. There's already quite a few early-tier cold resist items. I'd like to see that spread out more.
Also, I now really want a "Pendant of Roaring Waves" which forms a set with Calm Waters that only gives penalties.

Maybe a belt that just gives 100% knockback resistance, and that's all it does?

I've been wanting to see some really heavy armour that reduces movement speed a bit, like -10% or so. Belts seem like a good slot for that

A champion's belt that makes heroism infusions stronger somehow?

An alchemists's belt that constantly restocks itself with potions. Random infusion on use, costing 200/600 energy.

grayswandir wrote:Belts can get the noble ego, which reduces damage against summons. I'd like to see an artifact that's the opposite - reduces damage against everything but summons. (Or maybe just be really good overall and increases damage from summons.) Something like "X's Last Stand", where the expert duelist guy fell against a huge army of enemies?

In general, since belts so far are really the only slot that has a specific damage reduction ability like this (probably?), I think it's good to focus on. The system's pretty flexible too - for example, we could make an ice belt that reduces damage from "burning" enemies - Faeros, and anything that's currently on fire.

Maybe a belt that just gives 100% knockback resistance, and that's all it does?

I've been wanting to see some really heavy armour that reduces movement speed a bit, like -10% or so. Belts seem like a good slot for that

A champion's belt that makes heroism infusions stronger somehow?

You want to make Heroism infusions stronger? Yowzer.

I like these ideas.

About the egos and whatnot, I'm not sure what gets what and I don't really care. I've just noticed that belts are lacking and it'd be nice to see belts sneak in with some added features… and I'm a big fan of the trade-off idea.

The carrying capacity note was separate. I think ALL belts should offer some carrying capacity, independent of the egos on the item.

As for the rest of my ideas… meh. They kind of suck. I just wanted to kick-off the conversation.

Also, someone said that they didn't seem very "Belty" and I just want to reject that idea immediately as none of the gear seems thematic. The stat additions, mixture of egos, etc., all seem bizarre.

Anyway, good times.

There may be a lack of variety in fixedart belts, but randart belts can definitely be good. I've even had purple belts so good I used them at endgame when the rest of my gear is randarts and fixedarts.

It would be nice to have more belts that have a unique "flavor" rather than just being a collection of useful stats. Either give them stats that are uncommon, or give strong benefits with some kind of downside so you have to make a conscious decision about whether to use it.

I'll suggest a buff for the woefully underpowered Neira's Memory belt. Shield activation? On a belt slot? Yes please! Oh wait. it's worse then a t1 shield rune. And costs a turn. Needs a bit of a buff, I mean it's supposed to have provided the shield that saved linaniil from death in the spellblaze for the Maker's sake...

I believe that Neira's Memory scales to your magic stat… to start, it's around 130 and around a magic stat of 100, it sits around 350.

That's not too bad. How much better do you want to make it? I ask that question earnestly.

In general, my preference is for unique abilities… features, functions, and bonuses that don't really show up anywhere else in the game, especially on artifacts.

I get that the random ones have some pretty good stats but that's just it, they're a little boring and 95% of them are garbage because the bonuses aren't exactly what I need. Having at least a few artifacts with clear bonuses would help smooth that out a bit. As it stands right now, most of my builds use one of three belts and only in the rarest of situations do I use anything else.

edge2054 wrote:A lot of people will wear Girdle of Calm Waters the whole game.

Part of the problem is that we don't have a lot of good artifact belts. The other part is that it's really really good for the tier it's at.

Yeah, when you put it that way as 'lasts through the whole game'...just nerf it, but not too heavily?

I remember it as giving +30% healing mod and +20% to some resists (but it's a long time since I last saw it in the game), could halve these bonuses and keep it at the same tier, perhaps?
Or: nerf to 20% /15% and raise by one tier, or keep as is but raise by two tiers?

I think having generally-useful artifacts that work for all classes is great, honestly. But I can see how the Girdle is excessive in its power level...

EDIT Is there a belt that grants the 'switch weapons as a free action' ability? I think that's quite fitting when you consider belts can be used to hang weapons from.
Could put this power on some sort of 'Girdle of the Warmaster' artifact.
I can see how it's a bit sad if it makes redundant a specific talent, though...

Mighty girdle is quite good in a set, but almost useless without, and completing that set is extremely rare. I suggest splitting the set bonus and giving the base item half of it.

Crim, The Red Thunder wrote:I'll suggest a buff for the woefully underpowered Neira's Memory belt. Shield activation? On a belt slot? Yes please! Oh wait. it's worse then a t1 shield rune. And costs a turn. Needs a bit of a buff, I mean it's supposed to have provided the shield that saved linaniil from death in the spellblaze for the Maker's sake...

That belt gives really good status resists. The shield doesn't use the charm cd, so you can pre-shield with it. I'd say it's good for its tier.

supermini wrote:Mighty girdle is quite good in a set, but almost useless without, and completing that set is extremely rare. I suggest splitting the set bonus and giving the base item half of it.

What if Burb had a high chance to drow the Snow Giant warps? Maybe he does already? Can't think of an unique NPC that would make sense as dropping the Mighty Girdle.

(I am assuming that if things are done this way, you could get the artifact both as a regular drop AND as a drop from the unique NPC, so it should make it more likely overall)

Zonk wrote: What if Burb had a high chance to drow the Snow Giant warps? Maybe he does already? Can't think of an unique NPC that would make sense as dropping the Mighty Girdle.

(I am assuming that if things are done this way, you could get the artifact both as a regular drop AND as a drop from the unique NPC, so it should make it more likely overall)

Sure, but I'd still like the mighty girdle to be able to stand on its own. If you split the set bonus you don't lose anything in case you get the set. I think I've completed it twice in 3 years of playing the game.