ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

UPDATE: Tweaked skills to justify a a large skill investment, given that I'm not actually adding the number Generic talents.

Necromancers have a few extra generics and nothing really to spend it on… Celestial/light isn't quite the beast on a necro that it is on an archmage. It does, however, provide the added benefit of a weak heal and a way to eliminate status effects. It is my hope that I can mimic those benefits with a Lich-only generic category.

My primary problem with the Necro lichform is that it's not really worth it to me. I'd prefer a skeleton mage if I wanted a nuker… or even a ghoul Necro if I wanted the summons.

My solution is that, once you become a lich, you lose the Conveyance category in favor of a higher-risk Lichform generic.

You transfer all points invested in Conveyance directly into the skills, as ordered, in this new category.

1. A life and mana-based sustain skill that increases Blurred Mortality by 60 life per level and increases your resistances 3% per level and resistance caps 1% per level. At lvl 5, this skill removes the cap for max souls when you're at or below 0 life.

Cost: 200 life and 100 mana
Cool down: 30

Slightly increases your life-pool by shifting it to Blurred Mortality (gain 300 life and lose 200 plus 100 mana). At lvl 5, it makes the skill a permanent passive (thus, the life-transfer and mana cost are permanent), thus un-cancelable by enemies.

2. A targetable teleport skill that is only available when you're at or below 0 life.

Cost: 15 mana
Range: Up to 18
Cool down: 8

Very short cool-down, targetable and able to pass through walls, perfect 1-radius target, and NO chance to fail. Range increases and cool-down decrease with each point investment.

3. A passive that increases the abilities of your minions:

Movement speed, stealth and invisibility detection, vision-range, and at lvl 5 your character can see what your minions see as long as they're in your necrotic aura. This also makes it such that any of your minions who are vampires, produce a small healing ability akin to Vampiric Gifts for your character.

4. Sustain that is only available when below 0 life, similar to disruption shield.

Cost: 0
Cool down: 24
Instant cast

Your movement increase speed 60% per talent level, up to 300%.

Reduces cool-downs for all abilities 5% per level, up to 25%.

Causes you to "shake-off" all status effects currently affecting you and making you resistant to status effects by 10% per level, up to 50% from this skill.

Creates a small damage shield equal to 20 times your current # of souls. As you gain and/or use souls, the damage shield gains/loses power accordingly.

When your life increases above 0, the sustains collapses but you retain benefits for 3 turns, except the damage shield (although it becomes static and no longer changes based on # of souls) which survives until it is worn-down.

What do you mean by "lose conveyance"? You lose any invest in the tree? Or you can still cast gained talents, but you cannot invest any more?

Besides that I am not totally convinced that talents that you can anly use when below 0HP are worth investing. Except it thay are life savers...

ghostbuster wrote:What do you mean by "lose conveyance"? You lose any invest in the tree? Or you can still cast gained talents, but you cannot invest any more?

Besides that I am not totally convinced that talents that you can anly use when below 0HP are worth investing. Except it thay are life savers...

A perfectly targeted teleport that doesn't require LoS is a live saver. I would definitely invest in this provided it got at least 8 range.

As written, 4.) is not worth getting but the general idea isn't bad either. If it's instant cast, and doesn't break immediately upon healing back to full, and the benefits are really, really good, then it could be worth getting at least one point.

"Losing" the conveyance tree, however, in any form, is not only a bad tradeoff but it also defeats the purpose of giving Necromancers more places to spend generics. Also trying to tackle that problem with Lichform isn't a great idea either, as right now the pros/cons of getting Lichform are pretty balanced by design and this would tilt it over to the Lichform side.

It was my goal to create a tree that does, in fact, shift the balance more to Lichform but at a cost… the fact that it's the goal of necromancy just makes that a given to me. Seems thematic.

What if the new Lichform tree was optional? As in, when you become a Lich, it asks you (liked the Cursed Aura) tree if you want this.

Still Donkatsu,
your points are well-taken. My hope was that if I structured the tree correctly, it would demand a large point investment but I was trying not to overpower it… the 4th skill I waffled on for just that reason.

Essentially, my goal was to create a tree that would demand a large 15-20 generic point investment and would increase the size of your life pool under Blurred Mortality and, when you're below 0 life, have some very good bonuses.

I don't know if I've accomplished that so I'm happy to read the feedback.

As for the teleport… yeah, I was hoping that a perfect teleport with decent range (I was thinking 17 at lvl 5) would be tempting.

Lastly, I wasn't sure about how the losing the Conveyance category would work… however it does, I'm hoping to make it worthwhile. Any thoughts on how to do that?

I've always wanted to do something similar - in effect making a 'variant' tree that you can get in some circumstances. Basically, you lose all talent levels in the old tree, and gain them all in the new tree. So if you had 1.1 Conveyance at 5/1/1/0, then when you switched you'd have 1.1 of the new tree at 5/1/1/0.

Of course, going this way, I'd recommend that the new talents more closely resemble the talents they're replacing - so a short range teleport, a long range teleport, a shield, and a sustain of some sort.

I considered that option but I didn't like the idea of just re-creating the category… that's just sound and fury for nothing. However, the point transference makes sense to me. It just becomes strategic as you'd have to build your character with Lichform in mind. I honestly don't think it's a huge deal as the class already has some extra generics.

Now…I like the first skill a lot. The second is needed in my opinion but maybe not good enough (that's why I made it a passive). The third is imperative to my concept but that's not to say my concept is any good, ha ha.

The fourth skill I liked in theory but I'm just not sure how strong to make it.

I really like the idea of having the bonuses that exist while fighting below 0 life. That's just not viable right now due to the size of Blurred Mortality, hence the third skill.

Another attempt at it:

All skill-points invested in Conveyance transfer to this new category (if you take it) at 1:1, in this order.

1. A life and mana-based sustain skill that increases Blurred Mortality by 60 life per level and increases your resistances 3% per level and resistance caps 1% per level. At lvl 5, this skill removes the cap for max souls when you're at or below 0 life.

Cost: 200 life and 100 mana
Cool down: 30

Slightly increases your life-pool by shifting it to Blurred Mortality (gain 300 life and lose 200 plus 100 mana). At lvl 5, it makes the skill a permanent passive (thus, the life-transfer and mana cost are permanent), thus un-cancelable by enemies.

2. A targetable teleport skill that is only available when you're at or below 0 life.

Cost: 15 mana
Range: Up to 18
Cool down: 8

Very short cool-down, targetable and able to pass through walls, perfect 1-radius target, and NO chance to fail.

3. A passive that increases the abilities of your minions:

Movement speed, stealth and invisibility detection, vision-range, and at lvl 5 your character can see what your minions see as long as they're in your necrotic aura. This also makes it such that any of your minions who are vampires, produce a small healing ability akin to Vampiric Gifts for your character.

4. Sustain that is only available when below 0 life, similar to disruption shield.

Cost: 0
Cool down: 24
Instant cast

Your movement increase speed 60% per talent level, up to 300%.

Reduces cool-downs for all abilities 5% per level, up to 25%.

Causes you to "shake-off" all status effects currently affecting you and making you resistant to status effects by 10% per level, up to 50% from this skill.

Creates a small damage shield equal to 20 times your current # of souls. As you gain and/or use souls, the damage shield gains/loses power accordingly.

When your life increases above 0, the sustains collapses but you retain benefits for 3 turns, except the damage shield (although it becomes static and no longer changes based on # of souls) which survives indefinitely until its worn down.

I don't particularly feel like revealing on the forums the "optimal" necro build.
What I can say however is that Celestial/Light is extremely potent and that Necros are actually fairly stretched for generics, much like Archmages.

Currently I don't feel lich gives enough benefits to be worth pursuing.

1. You miss out on infusions, such as Heroic and Movement which are extremely powerful.
2. Furthermore the star tree is really bad and seems more of a placeholder reward.
3. It requires 6 point investment to even unlock.

There was some discussion about creating a unique tree for Lichform and I think I like this in principle, but they must address these points.

Ideas should somewhat compensate or offset the disadvantages given by taking Lichform.

Losing conveyance for example is... not really ideal, Phase Door is one of the best positioning tools and the Teleport is nice to use as a last ditch effort or more tactically when the floor is cleared except for a boss.

Mex,

I'm inclined to disagree with the claim that the Necro is stretched for generics but that may very well be a style of play issue. Also, I don't think this IS an optimal build reveal. I'm trying to suggest a generic category that isn't overpowered and is largely play-style dependent. Some players will like it and some will prefer the Conveyance category.

That being said, I was attempting to address some of your concerns as they're mine as well… namely, the lack of infusions. I thought I WAS addressing exactly the two you referenced, plus I was addressing the status effect problem that the undead suffer from.

This generic category offers a superior teleport but with a condition… I've mitigated that condition by increasing the life-pool of blurred mortality. More so, it increases the resistances and resistance caps which, when combined with the other Lich cap bonuses and Aether Permeation prodigy, can create a very durable character who could handle the limited teleport a bit better.

It also offers a means of addressing status effects and provides a movement bonus. Plus, allowing the necro to see what his/her minions see can be very helpful. This would produce a change in play style which I think is good… make the Necro play a bit more uniquely.

I suppose something could be done to address the Star Fury category but I've had no luck.

What did you have in mind to make that category better?

I think Divination and Conveyance are quite useful.
Along with the racial category and 1 or 2 optional pickups you have lots of options already.
That said, I did make an extra generic category, but its really just some generic necromancyish stuff.
What you are trying to do here is very class specific.

HousePet wrote:I think Divination and Conveyance are quite useful.
Along with the racial category and 1 or 2 optional pickups you have lots of options already.
That said, I did make an extra generic category, but its really just some generic necromancyish stuff.
What you are trying to do here is very class specific.

I don't disagree that there are plenty of options but the lack of a class-specific generic is irksome. Also, there are legitimate concerns about Lichform's utility and I'm trying to kill two birds with one stone.

I happen to like the Conveyance category (and divination is… useful) but again, two birds, one stone. I'm not married to the feature… I was just trying to avoid bloat and it seemed like the easiest option.

My goal is that getting Lichform would change the game-play a little. It's fun, in theory. If you want a normal Necro, don't go Lichform…

I suppose my question is, is this an appealing option? If not, why not? Can it be tweaked? Etc?