ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Against Arcane enemies, the obvious counter is Silence, plus there's a bunch of abilities that confer Arcane Disruption failure chances.

Against Physical enemies, there are more counters. Pin them at range, Disarm them, knock them back so they can't close with you, freeze them in blocks of ice so they can't move, there are quite a few things that render physical attackers void.

But what's the big weakness for Wilder/Psi enemies? There's no Wild Disruption or Psi Disruption stuff, there are no status effects that specifically negate their abilities, nothing that fills up their Equilibrium bars or drains their Psi. I may be missing something obvious, but I kind of feel this is why the Wilder classes often feel a bit easy, there's nothing in particular you're terrified of or have to watch out for, or have to think of ways around.

I feel like Wilders kind of need an "Anti-Nature" counter, like Arcane has "Anti-Magic." Some outgrowth of Corruptors/Vim that load them up with failure chances or fill up their Equilibrium bar, for starters.

This isn't the same thing, but doesn't mind damage drain PSI first? Doesn't help when you (or they) have values in the hundreds, though...

As for Wilders, they don't seem to have a counter... What if, since Nature is so unforgiving, when they're hit by blight damage raises Equilibrium, as a form of feedback damage? Might make a certain Sdark Crypt even more risky, though. :/

Does anyone else have anti-wilder or anti-psionic ideas?

Mind damage only drains Psi first if the target is a Solipsist.

I've done a Blight effect that raises Equilibrium and drain Stamina before.

Good point. I think blight damage is the way to go. Maybe blight damage increases Equilibrium, or prevents Equilibrium reduction. Even better, since Wilders are tied to the land, blight effects could cause a zone where Equilibrium reduction doesn't work, as the land itself has been corrupted.

As for anti-psi, I think it would make sense if stunning, dazing and confusing effects were given additional psi damage.

But of course, all this leaves out the Afflicted. What would counter their Hate? An enemy that uses Love?

I don't think that blight damage needs to be made more nasty.

Counter for Equilibrium...Technology!

Mother nature can shove it, we make our own way. Have the technology in the Orc Campaign have some options similar to antimagic, but targeted against wilders.

Paradox, maybe?

McAllister wrote:But of course, all this leaves out the Afflicted. What would counter their Hate? An enemy that uses Love?

The Hate-using classes have it tough enough as it is, they get a break.

Though a class using Love as a resource might be funny.

New 'Love' subclass!

Charmer - Mage - Uses a 'Love' resource bar.

Casts a multitude of spells to 'dim' their opponents senses, making them feel confused as to if they truely 'want' to kill you, all the way up to full on charming them to fighting your foes.

When you fight Ben as one, he joins you as a permanent companion.

if you really want this, give brainlocking a chance to make mindpowers fail

most nature gifts used by wilder classes are mindpowers too anyway, and stone wardens are magical

but I'm telling you though, this is really unnecessary, OP

There will be a counter to wild gifts in an upcoming release.

Razakai wrote:There will be a counter to wild gifts in an upcoming release.

rip wyrmics

Is it not the advantage of siding with nature that you would gain an advantage against mages?

I thought this was somehow meant to offset the power level that is much more in favour of arcane.

I don't think I necessarily agree with having counters for psi/equi using classes as they are already fairly weak in comparison.

I don't really agree with you there. Oozemancers are currently a lot stronger than alchemists.

I tend to agree that wilders are stronger than arcane (at least oozemancers, I don't have much experience with wyrmics or summoners), though I think that might have mostly to do with how you don't have to worry about silence or mana clash (with the exception of Corrupted Negation, which is not nearly as serious and affects Arcane just as much). Availability of healing sources, especially when coupled with fungus reducing the turn cost of such healing to 0, also makes a difference. The power difference isn't huge but it is there.

Likewise, though, I feel the psi classes are especially strong.

Maybe hate effects could counter psi, the same way arcane/blight and nature might counter one another? Sort of hate being more like "uncontrolled" or simmering rage, versus psi requiring a serenity and peace of mind.

Heck, if you want to go that far, paradox and physical could also counter one another (physical/linear versus non-linear), though I don't think physicial or paradox requires any further balancing (I think paradox is also affected by silence, though they're not a risk of mana clash affecting your resources and manipulating sustains).

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I'd also, at the very least, would like to see a nature equivalent of the Rod of Annulment for non-arcane.