ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Hello all, please post anything you think could help the ToME new player experience. Think back to when you were brand new at ToME 4 and tell everyone what you wish you knew back then, that seems obvious now (something that could be added to the tutorial, for example). Or, suggest a feature that would improve things for those who come after you.

One suggestion:

Lock Arcane Blade and Shadowblade initially.

Let Arcane Blade unlock with Archmage so it isn't hard or anything, just to prevent newbies from wandering into it before they understand anything about Magic or Melee then being forced to learn both. It is also a little weird that their first exposure to the Magic categories that Archmage is the true master of comes from a melee class.

Shadowblade could be unlocked by being a Rogue and doing something like getting an unseen critical hit while Stealthed with 0 Light radius (in complete darkness) or something. Again not trying to make it hard, just trying to guide people into the simplest options first.

I like the idea of locking ABs just because that class is so complicated right now with lots of stat dependencies. Shadow Blade certainly has similar issues.

That said I see a lot of experienced players coming over from other roguelikes that hate the unlock system. So we'd be cutting options from those kinds of players.

Alternatively both classes could be cleaned up so they're not so complicated and don't rely on such weird stat spreads. Not sure why AB is cunning dependant at all.

Shadowblades aren't quite so bad but could probably use some help in this department anyway.

I'm not sure Shadowblade should be locked - since Rogue's are harder then Shadowblades in some respectives (locked Rush for example on Rogues).

Arcane Blade could probably be locked - maybe make in acquired on killing the the boss in the Rhaloran Camp.

I guess you could lock Shadowblade behind killing the Assassin Lord and Arcane Blade behind killing the Rhaloren Inquisitor.

That's sorta a compromise between the two views, though personally I still like them starting unlocked so people can have a few complicated options.

Introduce a quest line that starts in your respective starter town, open at level 1. There has been a series of murders lately and you are asked to track down the suspect, a haggard-looking man who was last seen fleeing in the direction of [another starter town], and you are given the town's general cardinal direction. A 3x3 square around that town is revealed on the world map. You go to that town, and you discover that there have been murders of a similar pattern (mutilation, no traceable motive), and reports of a suspect who matched the profile, fleeing towards [the third starter town]. You get the same info from that town, and are next directed to Last Hope. From Last Hope, you are directed north to the lumberjack village, which is unlocked at this point in the quest line, no more random lumberjack encounter. You finally find the one responsible for the murders in Derth, Elvala, and Shatur. His name is Ben Cruthdar.

Completing the quest unlocks an achievement that turns Ben Cruthdar back into a random encounter like he is now, and defeating him as a random encounter also completes the murder investigation quest (so it's not sitting there in your quest log annoying you, if you don't feel like going to every town after the first time). New players are given a tour of each town in a way that feels heroic, and they are rewarded with a cool boss fight, a digger, and a shiny new unlocked class (Cursed).

Because everyone should visit Last Hope early on for shopping and Combat Training, but new players have no idea that Last Hope exists until after Dreadfell, which is way too late.

I approve of that notion.

Keep clear of Graveyard, Charred Star, Melinda's, Lake Nur, chests and vaults unless you really know what you are doing.
Have escape physical wild and rune or psychoport handy and don't be shy to use it.

I think game should give psychoport as starting equipment and warn about dangerous locations in BIG RED LETTERS. That would make game way more noob friendly.

I don't know, I kind of like the Room of Death's Achievement for entering it giving you a nice little hint on what your next action might be.

Most important...

documentation

Documentation

DOCUMENTATION

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Scheduling where the player should go next (i.e. an adventure plot arc) is important, and painfully lacking in this game. Really, too high level areas should not even be on the map. There should be a dialog that precedes every new area on the map. This is not just to justify why this area has appeared, but should give useful clues as to what sort of challenge they can expect.

I like what donkatsu's town tour quest. Another approach is to disbar player entry to Last Hope until they have reached about level ten (insert pretext here). I don't believe combat training is that much of a necessity for classes that start without it.

1. Remove adventuring parties (this has the additional benefit of making the game better for everyone).
2. All new games start by automatically opening the quest log.
3. Shaloren start in Elvala, not Scintillating Caves.
4. Upon receiving the rod of recall (killing the first boss), players receive the Agent of the Arena quest, reworded slightly to direct them toward Derth.
5. Autoexplore should not have to be chanced upon. It is the single greatest feature that makes the game bearable.
6. Remove adventuring parties (really).

How come everyone hates adventuring parties so much? I only play on normal and tend to eat them for free loot and xp pretty easily.

They're generally not so bad but on occasion you'll get hit with Fearscape or Inner Demons or something mean.

Fortescue wrote:How come everyone hates adventuring parties so much? I only play on normal and tend to eat them for free loot and xp pretty easily.

Because you only play on normal. Nightmare and above adventurer parties are ridiculously strong. Even on normal you can get unlucky, like edge pointed out.

theshim wrote:

Fortescue wrote:How come everyone hates adventuring parties so much? I only play on normal and tend to eat them for free loot and xp pretty easily.

Because you only play on normal. Nightmare and above adventurer parties are ridiculously strong. Even on normal you can get unlucky, like edge pointed out.

So you think certain aspects of Nightmare and beyond are more unfair than others? Interesting.

Fortescue wrote:So you think certain aspects of Nightmare and beyond are more unfair than others? Interesting.

This is a commonly reported observation and is what fuels most informed balance discussions.