ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Old thread is here http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=41191

Design Goals

More Anomalies
Because they're fun. Also make anomalies more interesting and more manageable. Include some talents that let you avoid anomaly effects and possibly aim them.

More Focus on Control and Less on Damage
Especially for Paradox Mages. Not just debuffs but environmental manipulation via controlled and targeted teleports as well as terrain creation/destruction and fun AoEs (like maybe a Black Hole?).

Some Summons
Ties into more control and less damage. Having friends helps! I'd like to include another summon spell and make the two existing ones more accessible and funner (Temporal Clone and Paradox Clone).

Clean Up Temporal Wardens
Move everything to spellpower/magic from willpower. Willpower will now just be used for Paradox management. Reduce values on items that grant paradox control so straight willpower can compete.

Give Temporal Wardens a Unique Playstyle
Since we never got a mage bow I'd like Temporal Wardens to focus a bit more on that niche. Of course they'll be a mage-bow/mage-blade hybrid but hey, it should be fun

Better Paradox Scaling
Encourage players to use higher levels of Paradox. Anomaly rework will tie into this.

So with all of that in mind here's some brainstorming on talents and trees along with another document with some general ideas.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Bdm ... rin3c/edit
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Wz_ ... ncGhI/edit

I'll be updating these documents and this post as time goes on. Please feel free to contribute any ideas. Even just cool talent names that have no effect attached. Sometimes the best talents come from a simple name.

Also, feel free to give your thoughts, positive or negative, on any proposed changes. Comments are welcome here or in the google docs.

*edit* Here's some spreadsheets. These are open. Feel free to add any ideas to them. If a tree already has four talents feel free to add more lines and more talents. I'll trim things down until we have four talents per tree when the time comes.

Class Trees: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0
Generic Trees: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0
Warden Trees: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

In Dota there is a hero called Enigma who has a channeled black hole--it's a huge aoe disable, but he can't do anything during that time. We have Psionic channels, and we have summons--if one could be persuaded to channel a black hole, or to deal damage while the Player Character does, that could be cool.

On that note: more summons is probably a bad idea. Reliance on the ai (and trying not to hit your friend with your huge aoe control spells) is generally not so much fun. Any improvement to Paradox Clone would be awesome, however! It has the potential to be one of the coolest skills in the game.

Maybe replace Rethread with the Binding Energy talent from my Energist nonsense? Namely, an instant which returns resources based on the damage of the next spell used. Adds utility, removes damage.

A voodoo doll style time-cloning of enemies (bosses especially) such that aoe skills would hit them twice (ONCE IN THE PRESENT, ONCE IN THE PAAAAAAST/FUUUUUTUUUURE) could be fun. It could deal delayed damage from the clone, or instantaneous damage, depending how you want to justify it lore-wise.

I'm thinking one more summon (some time elementals).

The voodoo doll effect is interesting.

I'll take another look at the energist. I remember liking some of those talent ideas but I didn't want to use them without permission.

I've always wanted a paradox summoning skill that summons an alternate version of yourself - something like summoning a stripped down version of yourself and then putting a random class on top of that like in rare enemy creation.

I don't think time elementals are particularly interesting, although it is cool when they appear as an anomaly.

Edit:

Using the energy of enemies' matter is stuck in my head: what if you could mark someone so that when they die, you store that energy (like Necromancer souls) and can detonate it/use it as a resource?

I like the idea of using famous paradoxes. The name paradox mage might refer to time travel paradoxes, but there are plenty of other paradoxes you could use!

Some famous ones:
- Zeno's paradox. It's about a person being unable to reach his destination no matter how fast he runs. Perhaps a movement slow that keeps becoming worse until it eventually becomes a pin effect?
- Banach–Tarski paradox. Basically, it says it's possible to split a ball into many parts and recombine these parts so you get 2 balls that are identical and equally big as the original one. Can be used as a name for a summon/temporal clone idea.
- Schrodinger's cat paradox. Meant to explain how observing something can "change"/fix it. About a cat that is alive and dead at the same time. Perhaps some skill along the lines of "you become immortal for X turns, if any of the enemies that see you using this skill are still alive by the end of it, you return in time and your hp is reduced to 1"?
- Uncertainity paradox. If you know where something is, you don't know how fast it is and vice versa. Perhaps some sustain/passive that gives you a movespeed buff every time you spend a turn not moving and a damage buff every turn you do move?
- Maxwell demon paradox. I like this name much more than "equal exchange" by the way.
- Epicurean paradox. The target(s) are unable to become under the effect of any positive buff. (i.e. opposite of draconic will), perhaps some damage as well.
- Icarus paradox. Is about how being succesful can be the cause of your demise. Perhaps some damage spell that does more damage the stronger the enemy is/the more health he has?
- etc, etc. There are hundreds of paradoxes and many are more famous than the ones listed here, but it's not always obvious how to translate them into gameplay. Some of them can be found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_paradoxes .

Just pick 4 and you have a skill tree .

That's a pretty cool idea. In relativity there is a "Twin Paradox" if you want a simple name for the clone. The uncertainty principle is also not really a paradox, but it's a good idea for a skill on a kiting class like this one (should it be on an action or turn basis, though?). Schrodinger's Cat should probably be avoided; it's a bit hard to explain: http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2524

I'd like a spell that amplifies damage in exchange for shortening range, which could be justified with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladder_paradox

Edit: Oh and this is my favorite paradox, but I have no idea how to make a skill from it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unexpected_hanging_paradox

MarginalMagus wrote:That's a pretty cool idea. In relativity there is a "Twin Paradox" if you want a simple name for the clone. The uncertainty principle is also not really a paradox, but it's a good idea for a skill on a kiting class like this one (should it be on an action or turn basis, though?). Schrodinger's Cat should probably be avoided; it's a bit hard to explain: http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2524

I'd like a spell that amplifies damage in exchange for shortening range, which could be justified with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladder_paradox

Edit: Oh and this is my favorite paradox, but I have no idea how to make a skill from it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unexpected_hanging_paradox

Oh, I studied quantum physics in university, I know how hard schrodinger's cat paradox is to explain. Not sure if that's a problem though. Just write in the description "in quantum physics, something can be alive and dead at the same time until observed" and while that's quite a wrong explanation, it's sufficient. By the way, I would not mention a cat in the description/title, schrodinger is probably famous enough even without it.

A spell that amplifies damage in exchange for range sounds great, but I don't see at all how you justify it with the ladder paradox. As far as I understand it, it's about how for one obsever the ladder is too big to get in a garage and for the other it isn't. It also doesn't have a cool name you can use a skill name, but perhaps the idea can be used elsewhere.

My favorite paradox is probably the paradox of the wizard and the mermaid, but I don't see how to use it for gameplay it at all and it doesn't have a good name either. http://www.suitcaseofdreams.net/Wizard_Mermaid.htm

I'm all for using real physics as inspiration and these are some nice ideas

That said names and descriptions have to stick with ToME's theme. Hence Maxwell's Demon being an achievement, while the talent is named Equivalent Exchange.

More Anomalies

Some thoughts off the top of my head, on the lines that Anomalies should be a little more dangerous on average, but also mostly entertaining... and also easy to code ideas, as I like those...

-Invoke Zero Gravity over an area temporarily.
-Similarly, mass very low damage Gravity Well over an entire area. Mostly for the mass pin.
-Mass Fade From Existance, or whatever it is. The resists up/damage down ability. No damage for anyone.
-Mass timed effect that sets the speed of everything in range to 50%, irresistably, for 10 turns. Sure, not a problem, unless you need to run and meet someone that wasn't in visible range before, or unless you were abusing Haste/Slow.
-Uncontrolled temporal reversion, that combines TBTC's status along with Body Reversion's heal, on self only. (Or mass, I guess.)
-If a timeline splitter is in effect, revert to when it was cast(no matter what it was!) and remove any special effects it could cause. (This one's probably hard to code though.)
-"You cross timelines violently!" Could be done as a Fearscape style small room-you temporarily find yourself in a random terrain area with a random monster type for a short period, before reverting back to where you were at the end of the effect.

More Focus on Control and Less on Damage

-Damaging single target teleport spell that you can control your enemy's target space at L5.

-Field around you that causes projectiles in it to generate low Temporal damage projectiles (Particle Wavelength Diffusion? It's hard to come up with a fluid name for this.) headed towards the same square.

All projectiles. Including enemy ones. Leveling it up could let it deal damage, maybe slow or deflect enemy projectiles, and/or make the added Temporal projectiles explode in small radius.

-Gravity could use an overhaul in this regard, as the area control is the best part of it.

Gravity Spike is fine, but might I suggest a Repulsion Blast that, in addition to its current effect, essentially generates the current Repulsion Field? Scaling down the latter's duration and radius would be a good way to balance that, and both skills are underused right now-combining both into a defense/offense move would work really well.

Additionally, there's a simple fix for the now empty slot; Shearing Bolt, a damaging bolt+explosion that digs, producing a digging explosion at the end. (Or if you are feeling ambitious, a ray that shoves walls around in addition to damage, allowing you to hit people with walls for high damage if they are behind a wall.) Or you could just use this to toss the black hole idea into Gravity.

-Terrain creation? I want my big poofy purple temporal rift walls. Optimally, really uncontrollable areas of them with lots of holes, over a decent size radius.

-Weaponized Paradoxes? Is it possible to have a spell simply cast a randomized Paradox with the friendly fire flag on?

Some Summons

I like the idea I mentioned a few nights ago; A spell that summons a single Telugoroth, and has a 10%~ chance of a Paradox, but has both the summoning amount, duration, and power of the summons(gaining a Greater and eventually Ultimate in addition to several normal Telugoroths) go up, but also the chance of a Paradox. Makes it a good L1 and a very strange way to both heal Paradox and escape from situations at L5, if made strong enough.

I like the idea of Temporal Clone becoming weaker, if anything, but being able to clone multiple targets(Over, say, Rad 1 at L3 and Rad 2 at L5). It doesn't have to be a big area to be interesting, and it doesn't really need to hit anything above Elite then. (If that, even.)

Paradox Clone, as entertaining as it is, is too overwhelming for the player to be comfortable with. How about Timeline Clone, a version of it that has a 50% chance of producing a near-clone of you, and a 50% chance of producing a totally weird version of you with a generated random class set? You could make this even weirder if you want, with low chances of you as a Lich or an Elemental or something. There's a lot of potential with this idea, depending on how wacky you want to make it.

For a fourth one... hmm, here's an idea in general; You're planning on Void elemental stuff as a possibility, right? Why not have a Void elementals summon that, in passing, also creates a rip in space that removes tiles in a random area if it slices through it, and does constant Void damage? So it's sorta a DoT+area control+elementals, but not necessarily that good at any of it, and optimally irregular area like Creeping Darkness, etc.

Clean Up Temporal Wardens
Give Temporal Wardens a Unique Playstyle

I rather like the idea of the one unlocked base category that works for melee or archery, then two locked high end ones. Otherwise, dunno what to specify here, TW is one of the few classes I haven't cleared with(I have played with one; Right now they play like Archers pretty dominantly though, which is indeed a problem.).

I feel like they need some dedicated offensive magic (if not necessarily good offensive magic... fast projectiles are not optimal, but some form of magical projectile is.) if they're really going to go for magebow, and optimally Celerity needs to not crowd out dualwielding(since right now, bow/staff is already a very common setup for them).

If Celerity could grant a third swap slot, that could be a fast and optimal solution.

Better Paradox Scaling

I think I've already talked over this a lot.

So yeah, that's it off the top of my head.

I insist that Temporal Warden already has excellent offensive magic spells (including one of the best in the game, Echoes from the Past), and that any new spells should really augment or utilize their bow or melee attacks. I really like the repulsion blast/field combo, but it's already a fairly strong spell. I don't follow your Telugoroth Summon spell idea. Paradox Clone isn't overwhelming, it just wastes more player time than necessary, and doesn't really function as the tooltip claims.

Black hole:

All barriers on the level that are diggable are destroyed. A few more are created (using a floodfill algorithm, for sanity). Parts of the floor turn to lava. All enemies on the entire level are sucked next to the caster and take massive damage. A few other enemies are added (sucked in from elsewhere). Afterwards, the location of the dungeon on the world map has changed. The summoned enemies do not give experience or drop items.

The disorienting impact of this cataclysmic event reduces damage done by both the caster and the enemies affected by a large amount for a short time.

Schroedinger's Cat:

Enemies that are more than X tiles away, and not in direct LoS of the caster, believe that the caster has died and stop targeting her. The caster takes a significant amount of damage from using this ability and has their character portrait changed to a cat for a few turns (that last bit is to prepare for when DG inevitably vetoes the name).

Empathetic Time Reversal:

The caster and all enemies on the level are healed to full and have all negative and positive status effects removed. No cooldown, but can only be used when at least one enemy on the level is below X% health.

Zeno's Paradox:

Enemies' global speed is reduced as they approach the caster, who cannot move while the effect is channeled. Killing a rabbit while this talent is active grants the Zeno's Paradox achievement (again, forestalling a name change). This effect cannot be resisted.

Grandfather Paradox:

The caster is healed and cured. A hostile clone of the caster is summoned, to which the damage and status effects that were removed are transferred.

Grandfather Paradox - Destroy targeted humanoid and replace him or her with yourself, while a clone of you fights for ~10 turns before disappearing. Splits the timeline while your clone remains. Sort of a backwards Paradox Twin.

So I'm looking at four generic trees.

Chronomancy - Divination/Precognition effects.
Fate Spinning - Spin Fate stuff will go here.
Spacetime Weaving - Probably not much will change here.
Void Disciple - Space themed generic tree. Wormhole may be moved here freeing spacetime weaving up for another talent. Decomposition from the old energy tree will probably go here.

Possible talent ideas.

Sense and Vision effects, critical hit multipliers, bonus crit, bonus defense, crit reduction. Stuff that can be qualified as either probability or prediction based. Not just combat effects but possibly mix combat effects in with utility effects. Something like.. sense monsters - sense monsters in a radius of X for X turns. While this effect is active you deal X% additional damage (not a great example but just as an idea).
Precognition (should this stay?)
Void Walker - Grants out of phase bonuses on teleport.
Spin Fate - Gain defense and saving throws for 1 or 2 turns on any turn you’re attacked. Stacks.
Seal Fate - Gain accuracy and power bonuses for 1 or 2 turns on any turn that you damage a target. Stacks.
Fateweaver - Chance to ignore damage based on total fate.
Maybe some sort of targeted teleport for moving monsters around
More teleports in general?

*edit* Energy will become a class tree. Some of the talents will go to other trees.

Scouting should be passive or sustained, generally, IMO. How about an effect like 'spacetime periscoping ' -- the ability to see an area in range X of a target when dealing temporal or (magical?) physical damage to it? If you wanted to add higher tier skills you could throw a status on the mob so damaged and give some temporary bonuses for saving against/resisting its attacks or something like that. Or how about an ability to target your teleports as if the monster were X tiles closer to you, so everything within range K of an affected mob at distance d from you is effectively within a range max(d-X,0) + K of you, and sometimes closer if normal pathing works better?