ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Two ideas:

One: Add some more elements. Add the arcane tree with manathrust procced by Arcane Combat. Add the cold and ice trees with Ice Shards procced similarly to the stone tree. Maybe add some other elemental mana trees? Maybe temporal with the first spell (slowing) procced? Maybe also unlock all the advanced trees (wildfire, storm, aether) so they can get resistance penetration sustains in all elements.

Two: Make it so that, when Arcane Combat reaches max level (5/5 or maybe effective rank 6), every attack with do 100% damage conversion into one of the spell elements that it can channel (so if you only have flame, all attacks do 100% fire damage, but if you have lightning and flame, there's a 50% chance that it'll be fire or lightning).

ehm yea lol? arcane blade is among the very strongest classes since the staff changes. maybe even #1 damage dealer?

arcane has disruption shield. the other trees would be just too good. arcane blade already has tons of choices.

i think they need more of a nerf, remove greater weapon focus cat or aegis from em.

to bring variations into the class id follow that other topic about 2handed arcane blade, make the use of chain lightning and fireflash viablo for 2handed using arcane blades maybe? (there needs to be more combos for the lightning/fire trees imo thats right)

Yeah, I'm more inclined to say they need Battle Tactics pulled than anything.

However, I wouldn't mind more distinctiveness changes after that. Too much magic makes them way too good at being +2 casters, though, so I'd be more inclined to think they need, say, locked categories like Ice or Storm(some of the weaker and more independent unlockables), rather than strong starting unlocks.

I don't like how Arcane Blades have to spec stone. I wish speccing Flame or Lightning or something similar was equally viable. Maybe there could be a custom tree of Arcame Combat-compatible spells made especially for the Arcane Blade? That way, changes to that tree wouldn't affect archmage.

The reason I suggested these is because, at the moment, earth/stone is the default choice for arcane blades. The reason for this is twofold: it allows all your damage to be physical (unless you've got something else from equipment), thus you can stack +%phys damage and +%phys resist pen, and the stone tree has a sustain that grants you both of those. No other element gives you that.

With the wildfire, storm, and cold/ice trees, you could get the same benefits for any of those elements (and it bugs me a little that they can go fire, lightning, and physical, but not ice), and with the change to Arcane Combat you could make any element be 100% of your damage, just like you can so easily do with physical. I don't think most of the spells in those trees would be OP, though Shivgoroth form on a fighter may be potent. More specifically, it wouldn't really add to your damage capability, just to your options.

I'd like to see arcane with manathrust proccing because it REALLY bugs me that Arcane Blades can't actually go arcane. In fact, no melee character can unless they go something like staffzerker. In fact, I don't think anyone but Archmages can go arcane, and since Arcane Blade is the melee-version of Archmages, it makes sense that they should be able to do that. Disruption Shield may indeed be OP (which is why I was kind of iffy about it), though with the wide mix of stat distribution common to ABs, I'm not sure that it would.

The temporal suggestion was just for a little flavor. The spell procs wouldn't do damage, but would slow the creature. Essence of Speed may be OP on an AB, though the high mana cost may limit it's usefulness (not really sure).

u forgot about earthen missiles being 3 projectiles, thus having +200% chance to proc on hit spell effects. which makes stone even more superior + bleeding covering your stun/slow effects from being removed too easily.

i dont see a problem of arcane being archmage only, it feels like a mage category.

storm would be really OP on arcane blade same as arcane due to disruption shield imo, because hurricane and that daze chance gained on your lightning which u can "cast" x times more often than an archmage would just proc any crowd away like nothing.

wildfire wouldnt be the biggest problem but arcane blade could be played like a firemage with flurry flame option, dunno.

to make fire/lightning builds stronger maybe modify fiery/lightning hands to give resistance penetration. the damage conversion to fire/lightning can be achieved for the main hand by using a 1handed staff. and id really like to see some cooldown attack which can proc chain lightning/fireflash somehow and also protect u from the area dmg from the latter - maybe only usable while using 2handed weapons / in combo with some preparation skill.

or a new category in exchange for battle tactics.

edit: wow look at this one

http://te4.org/characters-vault?tag_nam ... cane+blade#

Stone always felt a little odd to me, since it's the only advanced tree available and the only Arcane Combat proc that isn't a beam. I kind of feel like the class would work better if it procced Pulverizing Auger instead of Earthen Missiles (remember, Pulverizing Auger was a non-damaging spell called Dig when ABs were first created).

I agree that ABs should be able to go Arcane if they want. However, I think that instead of leeching off the Archmage's spell trees (in which you only ever invest in the first talent), the AB should get a custom tree: 4 spells (fire, lightning, cold, arcane), no 'talents in category: x' prerequisites, allowing the player to focus on the spell they want to use. I think that granting passive resist penetration along with one of the spells, as well as damage conversion, could be very interesting, because it allows for the use of staves as well.

It seems to me that Stone is the optimal spec because it grants increased phys damage and phys resist penetration, which helps because a lot of your damage is weapon damage, and buffing that also buffs your stone spells. A talent tree unique to ABs, composed of their 4 damaging elements, resistance penetration, and damage conversion would fix that and add some variety to the class without messing up Archmage.

IMHO, I'd like to see two changes:
1) giving them a skill that increases all resist penetration that won't stack with skills like Crystalline Focus and Wildfire
-> I think it would be good for it to scale with strength or cunning, but not spellpower

2a) being able to 'bind' spells that have a low enough cooldown instead of the set three (for adventurers )
2b) or, just hardcoding in more options (manathrust, ice shards, invoke darkness to name a few)

I think I like Malboro's idea the best. Get rid of all the archmage trees, have fire, ice, lightning, and arcane spells (maybe each one has different range effects) in a new tree with no talent prereqs (so you can invest in any one or multiple as you see fit), and have each talent grant passive resistance penetration in that element. I'd also like to see Battle Tactics removed and a new tree added that granted bonuses for multi-element spreading. Maybe the first one grants bonuses to a different element every time you deal damage with another (i.e. do ice damage an you get arcane damage bonus), and things like that. Another could passively increase resistances in elements based on how much you've invested in that element's spell. Things like that.

Do note when brainstorming ideas; the last time people started getting hyped for Arcane Blade having a redesign that was more synergistic between its fighting and magical ends, DarkGod shot it down (As an AB design, not as a class in general).

The idea for their design is that they have two distinct ends-fighter and mage-and that they make it work anyways, as I understand it. Some of the ideas are verging more on combination, so I thought I'd mention it.

That's part of why I actually want Battle Tactics removed; People are basically making it into a physical fighter that builds Magic right now, as the most common builds, and that tree is a big part of why.

At this point, I'm seriously thinking of writing an add-on that revamps Arcane Combat as follows: you do not get a chance to proc a random spell from a predefined list, but a chance to get a one-turn buff that allows you to cast a single spell without using a turn, also reducing its cooldown by three.

This would greatly increase the flexibility of the class and make it play very differently from the "dual-wielding glass cannon"/"bulwark who hits like a truck" archetypes the current design rewards/requires. You could follow up a melee attack (though not always when you'd want to!) with Inferno or Phase Door just as readily as Lightning (though only the latter would not incur a cooldown), and you'd have a strong incentive to actually cast the diverse body of spells available. However, the days of firing off four volleys of Earthen Missiles in a single Flurry would be over.

As a bonus, the change would fix a number of other issues with the class:

--) Though they would remain an interesting and viable option for the class, staves would no longer generate out-of-control Arcane Combat damage in virtue of their huge proc damage bonus.
--) While arcane blades would continue to benefit from the multi-hitting capabilities of shields and dual weapons, the effective cap on one free spell per action would keep two-handers competitive.
--) Similarly, though Crystalline Focus alone would keep Stone appealing, the class's limited cooldown reduction would preclude insta-casting Earthen Missiles every turn without the aid of Body of Stone.
--) Finally, all sorts of nifty Adventurer combos would open up.

That last point is useless, ultimately, but I think this change is really cool. I am in support of it.

That's... a surprisingly interesting idea that arguably is better than the current Arcane Combat, but generally has a higher skill requirement to use well.

I'd definitely be interested in seeing feedback on that.

SageAcrin wrote:...has a higher skill requirement to use well.

Arcane Blade might not be want that... distinction... but after a few tries to see how it works, a "less experienced" player could probably understand it.