ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

I posted a similar topic in spoiler because I was thinking that this was something that was already in a previous patch but was sub-sequentially removed, but it seems like it's not the case, so I suppose I should post it in idea threads.

If you complete tempest keep by using the Angolwen path, I think you should be awarded the aegis general skill the same way completing tempest keep using the Zigur route give you fungus.

I feel like the Zigur route reward far far outweigh anything you lose and I can't really find any reason not to go zigur if your class allow you to. Losing arcane powered equipment isn't that big of a problem, and it's not so much a nerf as it is a rebalance compared to arcane class since arcane class already cannot use arcane disturbing equipment.
Almost every escort reward you lose only benefit arcane class, so you wouldn't take them anyway, while on the other hand some of the zigur reward would be nice for some arcane class.
Losing rune is a bit more of a problem, but nothing very critical is lost, phase rune/teleport are very risky move and has far as escaping go, you're better off using movement rune in most situation since you can actually choose where to go.

But above all else, fungus is just amazing, being able to constantly regenerate 10-20% of your health at all time, not to mention obtaining a new ability that can fully heal you for just one generic point (well 4 to unlock it, but two of three ability you need to unlock it are great anyway). On the other hand, the analogue talent for rune is aegis, which I feel isn't anywhere near as good as fungus (but could still be very useful and not broken for some class) isn't rewarded for tempest keep.

I think giving aegis to all class in exchange for not siding with zigur would give some incentive to not side with them and would be pretty beneficial for some arcane class (shadow blade is the one I'm mostly think about now, with ambuscade being nerfed they feel lacking in defensive option).

Aegis is pretty useless if you aren't an arcane class though.

The reason why Anti-Magic get those bonuses, are because they are locked out of a good chunk of all items and runes.

Arcane get absolutely no negatives, so they, to be even, get no bonuses. There is no basis for giving them Aegis by any stretch, as Fungus/AntiMagic are both rewards for giving up arcane-based stuff.

Are there that many more arcane items than arcane-disrupting items?

Yes *many* more.
On 1.1.4, 116 artifacts are arcane powered, while only 12 are antimagic (out of 285 artifacts).
So going AM forbids 40% of all artifacts, including great weapons.

Arcane classes do miss out on some rather powerful arcane disrupting artifacts.

(As of 1.1.3, haven't updated my local files yet.)
178 Arcane Egos
27 Anti-Magic Egos

Edit: While true HousePet, thats something that their classes themselves deal with, and isn't a side-effect of going Arcane for the quest.

You do lose many arcane powered equipment, but that's not even remotely close to being able to use fungus and anti-magic, most of those arcane powered equipment mostly benefit arcane class anyway, not to mention you're not guaranteed to have them drop, where you are guarantee to get fungus. Are there really people who decide to skip out on zigur if they have the possibility of doing joining them? (unless they're actually trying to make the game harder on themselves). While trying out the stone warden class, I was seriously considering just dropping all the arcane ability just to side with zigur.

It's true that aegis is only good for arcane powered class, maybe it would need some change (maybe have an ability that grant you a shield based on total health, or possibly scale with spell power/constitution).

Partly I'm saying this is because of how doing tempest keep with arcane class is a bit weird, you go back to angolwen, and there's just nothing there for you.

While I do think an arcane reward of some sort for Urkis would be good, antimagic is far from overpowered compared to magic. Arcane equipment is beneficial to everyone, and teleportation is a pretty big deal if you can't find a psychoport torque (which you're really not guaranteed to find).

Seian Verian wrote:While I do think an arcane reward of some sort for Urkis would be good...

This. What if Linaniil rewards the player with a unique artifact that can only be acquired from her after beating Tempest Peak? Something universally useful that will make players not feel so left out for not choosing antimagic?

Edit: Tempest Peak, not High!

adamn wrote:

Seian Verian wrote:While I do think an arcane reward of some sort for Urkis would be good...

This. What if Linaniil rewards the player with a unique artifact that can only be acquired from her after beating High Peak? Something universally useful that will make players not feel so left out for not choosing antimagic?

I really hope you mean Tempest Peak!

Whoops! Haha good catch

This is pretty much what I did with early versions of Arcanum.
Except that the reward was the Restoration category, which was basically all healing based.
I replaced this with the Academy because the reward was basically useless to anyone who didn't use magic, it was doubling up for a few classes as well, and some people prefered Conveyance.

One problem that tends to crop up in this sort of discussion is that the joining Zigur decision is treated as being part of the Urkis quest.

Zigur balance aside, it would be nice to have more unlockable generic trees that aren't willpower based. Not counting the weapon trees, willpower gets Harmony, Antimagic, and Fungus, while magic gets...Hexes. Hexes isn't even that great on most magic characters. And then there's nothing at all for any of the other stats. It feels kind of lop-sided.

Magic also gets Staff Combat, Light, Divination, Chronomancy, Chants.
More importantly, is that to get many of the non magic/willpower escort categories requires you to not even have a rune.