ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

I'm often annoyed to open a door and throw a spell in (or whatever) and once it's cleared, I enter and BAM, a whole section of waiting enemies that were unharmed and unactivated simply because I couldn't see them.'t makes no sense, it's awkward for gameplay, and it makes corners and doors weirdly dangerous for mages and whatnot.

I'd like to humbly suggest that if you use a skill that would hit an enemy, if you could see it, but currently does not because you can't (it's baby logic… can't see it, it doesn't exist), then it should hit the enemy in addition to activating the enemy.

I never noticed that. It sounds alarmingly Solipsistic, though.

Weird that it happens, though. I don't like it.

This is caused by in-vault protection. It doesn't apply to most enemies, only those in a vault. Note that there are vaults that are 'open', without a warning door. These are things like the dreadfell room full of undeads, and old forest snake and ant pits. I believe it's there mostly to stop cheap vault clearing tactics.

Could try making the non damaged creatures go agro and look for you, and you have to look at them to break the vault status?

+1 for fixing this. Please.

@House pet: I agree with the first part. But not the second.

What happens if you're blinded?

Well that is the current method of removing the vaulted status?

If they are in the AOE of a spell they should wake up and take the damage. Arguably, when you open the door, and one of them sees you, they should have a "warning shout" that would wake the others in the same vault.

I agree. Part of the fun of AoEs is supposed to be wiping out those massive rooms.

Theyleon wrote:This is caused by in-vault protection. It doesn't apply to most enemies, only those in a vault. Note that there are vaults that are 'open', without a warning door. These are things like the dreadfell room full of undeads, and old forest snake and ant pits. I believe it's there mostly to stop cheap vault clearing tactics.

Are you sure it's just in-vault?

I feel like it happens most notably in Dredfell which has these little rooms scattered about and a spell like aether breach should have hit all of them but didn't…

Hmmm…

Either way, it's quite awkward and I still endorse the "agro" idea. I think a better way to six something like this is with better and room design. Have little corners and auxiliary areas for enemies to hide in and behind.

Delmuir wrote:

Theyleon wrote:This is caused by in-vault protection. It doesn't apply to most enemies, only those in a vault. Note that there are vaults that are 'open', without a warning door. These are things like the dreadfell room full of undeads, and old forest snake and ant pits. I believe it's there mostly to stop cheap vault clearing tactics.

Are you sure it's just in-vault?

I feel like it happens most notably in Dredfell which has these little rooms scattered about and a spell like aether breach should have hit all of them but didn't…

Those are also vaults.

Even though they don't say prompt you to open them? All right, good to know. Thanks!

I still don't like the mechanism. Why change gameplay mechanics? Why not just design vaults more strategically?

Strictly speaking, those are termed "pits," but the enemies within still get the "In Vault" status. I believe this is to keep an entire pit of enemies from swarming the player at once before the player even knows the pit exists (apparently it's also caused some performance issues when enemies in the pit "wake up" when the player is nowhere nearby). That being said, I do think that, if one enemy in the pit sees the player, they should all wake up.

I think this is most notable in the Old Marsh… no doors, no rooms, just corners and edges. It's weird, nonsensical in terms of "real" behavior but also an irksome gameplay mechanic.

Why should a character built for range and distance like an archer or mage have walk into the bloody room, and melee range, in order to activate the characters.

I've no problem with improving the AI as the characters don't all have to file out the door to their doom. They could wait for the hero, especially if said hero doesn't have a area of effect ability. Still, they should activate.