ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

One thing that I would love to see is to see a little more variety between races and I think it fits the game if all races will get a locked second generic tree with 1.0 mastery, not some special, but one from already existing list. If class already have it give 0.1 or 0.2 mastery bonus but not unlock if locked (category point is too much for a buff...)

Some examples of what races could got :

Halflings - mobility: Not something very powerful, but fits the race and allows to create high defense spellcasters with mobility, something impossible in the current escort system
Thalore - Call of the wild. Again allows spellcasters to take the tree they are usually unable to get and fits thematically
Shalore - Conveyance... OK that may be too good, but having a way to make potentially teleportable all classes is interesting
Yeek - Mentalist. Fits. Tree is underused because it available only for solipsist while it is interesting for any class
Dwarf - conditioning. Not that good because every class can get it from escort... but fits. 0.2 mastery to condition for classes that have it already is good, too.


And I have no good ideas for cornac (not sure that they should have one...) , higher (while aegis look fun here, I am not insane to propose something that will turn highers in overpowered race), skeleton (no ideas at all) and ghoul (thugery? Not really fits. Conditioning? Same as dwarves and not nice )


It is a buff for all races but I think it should not hurt the balance of the game much... one still needs a valuable category point to unlock it

This sounds interesting.

I like this idea, disagree with a couple of the trees, though.

PureQuestion wrote:I like this idea, disagree with a couple of the trees, though.

Well most of the trees really have problems. I like only five combos that came into my mind

Halflings - Mobility
Thalore - Call of the wild
Yeek - Mentalist
Dwarf - Conditioning
Orc - Thuggery

all other races are problematic for me

Undead have no reason to get a tree, as this is mostly cultural background and undead could have any. Maybe some undead only midgame quest that will give random compatible secondary racial? Giving random from a start creates startscumming, and giving a choice is not only cumbersome but IMO way too good

Cornacs as generalists and shouldn't get one... Maybe smallish (0.05?) mastery buff to all generic trees?

Shalores logically should get some spell... but those are rather great trees to have.
And for Highers I have no good ideas at all

Cornac and Higher could get some reward after, say, finishing off the "Into the Darkness" quest. Something like, "Exploring these dark places has invigorated you! Your fellow humans look at you with increased respect". Could be a minor stat-boost (+1 Str,Dex,Con or Mag,Wil,Cun) or modest boost in one tree (+0.1,0.2?). Similar but different for Undead... "suddenly you have a flash of a long-forgotten memory, a skill you once knew as a living creature is yours again." Gives a choice of 1 skill rank in an assortment of otherwise unavailable utility skills. Just use the code from escort rewards to manage it.

Not sure that quest rewards is a good enough option, because that hurts arena\ID\NPCs but for undeads that may work... Definitely don't want to see it for humans

The trees presented here are a bit too much maybe, but the base idea sounds really interesting.
Why not as well make a race quest for every race that when finished gives the bonus.

Mayfair wrote:The trees presented here are a bit too much maybe, but the base idea sounds really interesting.
Why not as well make a race quest for every race that when finished gives the bonus.

Can you name the trees that aren't too much? IIRC the game has 36 non racial generic talent trees, half of them are too narrow for that role, some are useless because can be received from other sources (masteries, harmony, hexes), some are too strong

As for the quest\trainer I fail to see how it is better than giving from the start. One more "everyone must do it" quest is not what the game needs

One thing... Is there any logical way to link Hymns with any race? That's a fun tree and I am sad that only one class has access for it....

They aren't generic trees and are may be too powerful, but the Bone tree would make some sense for Skeletons and Plague would make sense for Ghouls. These would both require some investment into magic, but wouldn't have to be unlocked if not wanted/useful.

overgoat wrote:They aren't generic trees and are may be too powerful, but the Bone tree would make some sense for Skeletons and Plague would make sense for Ghouls. These would both require some investment into magic, but wouldn't have to be unlocked if not wanted/useful.

a) giving class skills to other classes is a no-no

b) Bone is one of the best defensive trees in the game and will owerpower skeletons beyond any sane levels. All and every characters will take it.

Strongpoint wrote:

Mayfair wrote:The trees presented here are a bit too much maybe, but the base idea sounds really interesting.
Why not as well make a race quest for every race that when finished gives the bonus.

Can you name the trees that aren't too much? IIRC the game has 36 non racial generic talent trees, half of them are too narrow for that role, some are useless because can be received from other sources (masteries, harmony, hexes), some are too strong

As for the quest\trainer I fail to see how it is better than giving from the start. One more "everyone must do it" quest is not what the game needs

One thing... Is there any logical way to link Hymns with any race? That's a fun tree and I am sad that only one class has access for it....

Just thinking of Dwarf Berserker and Bulwark with bonus to Conditioning and Halfling Rogue with Mobility.. that smells OP. Can't really remember the other trees from the top of my head.

On the quest part I was thinking of making player earn the tree without having it from the beginning. Something like take 1 million damage as dwarf to open conditioning or evade 1k attacks as Halfling.

Just thinking of Dwarf Berserker and Bulwark with bonus to Conditioning

+0.2 to conditioning don't do as much as you seem to think especially with 1.0.5 scaling. Quite small bonus in fact. And +0.1 will be barely noticeable.

and Halfling Rogue with Mobility

How is that overpowered? Comparing to what? Mobility is not a bad choice to spend cat point for a rogue... but that's nothing close to light for archmages

On the quest part I was thinking of making player earn the tree without having it from the beginning. Something like take 1 million damage as dwarf to open conditioning or evade 1k attacks as Halfling.

Again, why is it better than giving it right from the beginning?

I do like this idea, sorta, but I'm not sure it needs to be a whole full racial tree.

Maybe an option to gain 2-4 new talents under the current racial tree, and these new talent act like the Combat Training "tree" -- each one could be taken individually without requiring investment in previous talents.

Then each one could be REALLY niche, giving good racial flavor without being too powerful or too overly applicable. You wouldn't expect every character to benefit from all of them, so being able to ignore some of them would be a feature, unlike in the core Racial talent trees, where every talent could be at least somewhat useful to many different characters.

That's a pretty reasonable suggestion, and doesn't require one of the oh-so-valuable category points, either. As you said, it would also be easier to tailor to the race itself much better, as well as making it a niche-skill.

Perhaps an example could be... Thaloren elves getting a talent that (randomly) gives them a "whimsical" or "fell" mood, which seems compatible with the lore. As for what the effects would do, I'm not sure yet. Or what another would be... But there are options.

Strongpoint wrote:

Just thinking of Dwarf Berserker and Bulwark with bonus to Conditioning

+0.2 to conditioning don't do as much as you seem to think especially with 1.0.5 scaling. Quite small bonus in fact. And +0.1 will be barely noticeable.

and Halfling Rogue with Mobility

How is that overpowered? Comparing to what? Mobility is not a bad choice to spend cat point for a rogue... but that's nothing close to light for archmages

On the quest part I was thinking of making player earn the tree without having it from the beginning. Something like take 1 million damage as dwarf to open conditioning or evade 1k attacks as Halfling.

Again, why is it better than giving it right from the beginning?

On my current Berserker a cat point bonus to Conditioning is ungodly.

Like you said mobility for a rogue is a cat point. Think of a lv 1 cat point on a non-Cornac.

Getting the bonus later won't make the early game quite as easy.