ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Having a transmog unlock be the ability to automatically use the gem value for transmogrification if the value of the gem is greater is a good step toward automation, but why not take it all the way? That is, the unlock gives you a choice of one of two options at any given time, maybe more depending on whether the quality of the gem affects the decision rule. These options are:

• 1. Transmog the non-metal stuff, but autoconvert metallics and keep the gems
  2. The current income-maximizing rule.

Great idea!

I see three possible modes:

• Profit Maximization (convert when profitable and auto transmog gems)
• Lazy Profit Maximization (convert as above but do not auto-transmog gems)
• Gem Maximization (convert even when unprofitable, do not auto-transmog gems)

I'd probably use mode #2 (lazy profit max) most of the time.

And maybe for good measure let the unlock be a one-time achievement like access to the chest itself. Pay the fee in one game and all your alchemists start with the menu of autogem options.

Downloading a QoL addon and then having to earn its features is a little odd. I can understand races and classes, but not unlocking things that you'd typically find in a Game Options menu.

The chest itself is doing all the work, this addon just makes it smarter.

Problem is, the way I see it, is there are only a few things you need.
For non-alchemists (those who have Stone Alchemy from alchemist escorts/being an Adventurer/being Stone Warden (I think?)) you need:
Money
Relevant Gear
A VERY limited number of alchemist gems (quality matters little to none)
A similarly VERY limited number of full-size gems (for imbuing)

For alchemists, the list is the same except for a greater need for high-quality alchemist gems. Manually ripping gems out of gear is likely enough to easily handle the gem (full and alchemist) requirements of non-alchemists, leaving only money and gear as needs. Obviously the transmog chest doesn't make good gear, just money. Therefore, for all non-Alchemists (and non-Adventurerswholookawholelotlikealchemists), this idea would have no practical benefit aside from saving a couple minutes' of gameplay time. Non-combat gameplay time, too. It has the less-practical benefit of allowing players to build up pretty, but useless, stockpiles of gems, as if carrying around 50 diamonds is going to somehow make that Greater Multi-Hued Wyrm do less damage.

Simply put, I don't see any point to this aside from helping alchemists manage their alchemist gems. And from my (admittedly minor) experience with alchemists, that resource isn't hard to manage at all. Rip up a few T5 items, get some nice high-level gems, and you're set for a while.

My need for gems vs. cash changes over the course of the game.

There are very few times when I actually need cash. Generally those times are when I'm safe in town, so taking a few keystrokes to transmog a big stack of gems is pretty easy.

In the VERY early game, I actually don't want transmog cash. I want to save gems until I get into the Fortress so I can do a big transmog run with the linked fortress energy chest, and maybe unlock the rod or farportal right then. With an Alchemist this is quite possible.

Some other characters do want whole gems. Mindslayers, and also some addon classes and races like the Crystal race in the New Gems addon. For my addon classes, the Transcendent Fist actually wants a bunch of different gemstones available, since his bonus damage type changes based on which gem he's got in his TK weapon slot.

If I've got Imbue Gem or if I have a shot at the Gem of the Moon necklace quest, then I want at least 1-2 of each Tier 5 gem on hand so I can compensate for whatever gaps there are to cover in my endgame gear.

If you want to make my life REALLY easy then give me a way to select a bunch of different items and transmog them all at once. Then having stacks of gems wouldn't have even the slightest bit of interface frustration.

Even those things you've listed are really minor: 2-3 gems of each T5 at most. Usually you wouldn't even really want each T5, just the best few types of gems. At most 15 gems or so, and manually extracting those isn't a strain. Especially considering that you'll probably find those before you need them (esp. in the case of Limmir's quest).

Even assuming you're a gem nut, you don't need that many.
Imbue Gem, Crafty Hands, mindslot: 4 gems. Limmir, ring/ring, 4 gems. Total: 8.

Using the existence of addon classes to justify making more changes raises an important question: Are you asking for an addon, or a modification of the game itself? IMO addon-content should NEVER be used to justify modifications to the base game, unless that addon content was also being added to the base game. Parcel's original request seems more like a game modification than an addon, and that's how I'm parsing it.

Saving the gems for a Fortress mass-transmog is one consideration, but the existing autogem feature can't be used until after you reach the fortress, note. So at this point you're not asking for supplementary options but removing the old system & replacing it with a new (easier, cheaper) system. IIRC activating the autogem costs, what, 40 energy? Something like that. I'm pretty sure it's non-zero.

Waladil wrote:Parcel's original request seems more like a game modification than an addon, and that's how I'm parsing it.

Yes, that's correct. Something that spares an inconvenience in the actual gameplay should generally be integrated with the base game.

Waladil wrote:(snip)

You're basically trying to argue against my playstyle, since presumably it's not your own playstyle.

I think it's fine if people play different ways, so I'm not really interested in selling you on my way of doing things, nor am I interested in changing my way of doing things.

So the question is: Would it hurt you if my way were an option? I don't think it would hurt anyone, so arguing against putting that option in the game seems ... unproductive, at best, since we could both get our way by having both of our options available in the game.

I'd be happy to go into detail about what kind of things would help me play with more convenience, but I'm not going to try to justify my playstyle, since our different playstyles are purely a matter of subjective preferences. Likewise, I'm not going to argue about whether the game should have options which support addons or not. You are free to use or not use them, and so is everyone else.

Doctornull wrote: So the question is: Would it hurt you if my way were an option?

DG has only X number of hours in the day. Writing new algorithms for new autogemming protocols would cost a certain number of hours. Therefore, making your way an option could well hurt me if including that option, say, impaired an overhaul of the Mindslayer class.

You're an accomplished modder. If you want this so much, write an addon for it. That's exactly what the addon system is for. I didn't like the part where inscriptions don't auto-use when you've got saturation so I made and published an addon to change that. As far as I know, only like one other person uses that addon. But I don't care because I get to play the game I want to, and I didn't take up anyone else's time to do so.

Waladil wrote:

Doctornull wrote: So the question is: Would it hurt you if my way were an option?

DG has only X number of hours in the day. Writing new algorithms for new autogemming protocols would cost a certain number of hours. Therefore, making your way an option could well hurt me if including that option, say, impaired an overhaul of the Mindslayer class.

It's kind of condescending of you to think DarkGod needs you to save him from the ideas of people who want to improve the game.

He's a smart guy. I bet he can manage his own time pretty well.

What I'm asking for is something that would have improved my experience when I was new to the game, which is before I became an accomplished modder. The way gemming worked was annoying to me for a while. Thus I think it would benefit other users if my ideas were implemented, new users in particular.

The fastest way to get a feature you want into the game is to create a mod that accomplishes it. Darkgod occasionally just grabs an addon and implements it wholesale.

Doctornull wrote: It's kind of condescending of you to think DarkGod needs you to save him from the ideas of people who want to improve the game.

He's a smart guy. I bet he can manage his own time pretty well.

What I'm asking for is something that would have improved my experience when I was new to the game, which is before I became an accomplished modder. The way gemming worked was annoying to me for a while. Thus I think it would benefit other users if my ideas were implemented, new users in particular.

It's outright INSULTING of you to assume that DG would only want to hear why he SHOULD put in features, as opposed to also why he SHOULD NOT. Or does something called "fair and open debate" offend you on a personal level? Because as soon as I raised problems with the idea you began attacking me personally:

Doctornull wrote:

Waladil wrote:(snip)

You're basically trying to argue against my playstyle, since presumably it's not your own playstyle.

Generalizing me as someone who rejects all other playstyles, and of course

Doctornull wrote: It's kind of condescending of you to think DarkGod needs you to save him from the ideas of people who want to improve the game.

Outright accusing me of being condescending.

When did it become appropriate to insult other members of this community if they disagreed with you? I provided my opinion, and although it didn't agree with your opinion, I kept it strictly professional. Provided some numbers and analysis as to when this feature would be useful or useless. Heck, I was outright COMPLIMENTARY towards you, and mentioned specifically things you're good at! And you react with insults.

I've provided my input. This feature wouldn't be beneficial to the overall game, but if someone wanted to make it as an addon I'd be A-OK with it. I won't be responding to this thread anymore unless there's some constructive conversation I can take part in.

Waladil wrote:I won't be responding to this thread anymore unless there's some constructive conversation I can take part in.

The conversation was constructive until you decided to try to shut it down to make room for Mindslayers or whatever.

Let's hope it can now return to being constructive.

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stinkstink wrote:The fastest way to get a feature you want into the game is to create a mod that accomplishes it. Darkgod occasionally just grabs an addon and implements it wholesale.

Maybe I can figure out how to put the auto-gem stuff in an addon.

The actual "algorithms" are dead simple, it's more a question of finding a way to integrate into the code without stepping on other addons.