ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Right now, Melinda's dialogue is boring and frankly a bit creepy, what with the stomach groping and all. I recommend that it be replaced by the following:

You: So I was thinking that maybe you'd like to hang out sometime?
Melinda: Wait, so you think that the fact you rescued me from moderately-to-extremely certain death means you're entitled to sleep with me?

At this point you have two dialogue options. One is:

You: WHY AREN'T WOMEN ATTRACTED TO ME I'M A NICE GUY

At this point the dialogue ends, and you receive the Fedora of Greater Friendzone (activates to repel everyone around you).

Alternatively, you can say:

You: Wait, I just meant -
Melinda: Just kidding. [Calls to Father] Hey, Dad, I need to go … uh … do some laundry. Be back in a few months.

ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED: Be Gentle With Me – Lost your virginity to Melinda in the Sher'tul Fortress.

Melinda will then show up in the Sher'tul Fortress, and you can talk to her for one of the following responses, selected randomly: “Heya, sweet cheeks!”, “I've got a headache,” “Want to make an erotic woodcut?” and “I'm pregnant.” (If you get the fourth dialogue option, which is rarer than the others, the text at the end of the game changes from “You and Melinda traveled Eyal...” to “You, Melinda, and the Melindalettes traveled Eyal...”)

Okay, I cannot tell if you are being serious, but this is absolutely golden! (other than the word "Melindalettes", I question its legitimity).

Parcae2 wrote:Right now, Melinda's dialogue is boring and frankly a bit creepy, what with the stomach groping and all.

Yeah, game romance in general can be a bit awkward at best, and there's some chance of creep factor at worst.

Parcae2 wrote:ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED: Be Gentle With Me – Lost your virginity to Melinda in the Sher'tul Fortress.

Melinda will then show up in the Sher'tul Fortress, and you can talk to her for one of the following responses, selected randomly: “Heya, sweet cheeks!”, “I've got a headache,” “Want to make an erotic woodcut?” and “I'm pregnant.”

You aren't trying to reduce the creep factor, are you.

In a live fast die young world like ours, I find the assumption that all our characters are magically virgins before rescuing Melinda blatantly false.

Everyone knows that Mages get their staffs polished on a regular basis. Nothings more sexy then flowing robes, a doofy hat, and Bolbum's Big Knocker. (And power.)

Melinda's dad once gave my female character Bolbum's Big Knocker...

I think he was trying to be helpful?

I was being maybe 70% serious. If I might be 100% for a moment:

The creep factor in the dialogue doesn't come from a single awkward line, or even a lot of awkward lines - it comes from the situation. Melinda never does anything in the story, either in gameplay or verbally. She is an object, pure and simple. That makes the player character's attraction to her more than a little creepy. Then the player character whisks her away to an undersea fortress where (s)he alone controls access and egress, and leaves her standing in a corner like a sort of trophy. And her reaction to this proposal is that her father "doesn't need to be worried about her any more," because apparently the player character (whom she knows nothing about) is such a great catch.

Now, the whole "female character is an object" trope is kind of hard to avoid in gameplay. You're the player, and any attempt to make her have her own impact on gameplay is only going to wind up being irritating - not to mention making her look severely developmentally disabled, because she's controlled by the AI, so she is bound to misuse any abilities she receives. So I wouldn't recommend changing the actual mission.

The dialogue, though - that has no excuse. Do I think that the dialogue I wrote can be adopted into gameplay directly? That's for DG to decide. (At the very least, it might require some modifications for female PCs, for whom the "I'm pregnant" comment might invite some suspicious looks at the Fortress Butler). But do I think that it's an improvement on the original? Absolutely I do, and without a trace of irony. It gives Melinda an actual personality, with opinions and aims of her own. The player might like that personality or (s)he might hate it, but they at least should have some kind of reaction to it, instead of turning her into a kind of sex trophy.

I agree, I've never been comfortable with any of the Melinda dialogue. I just take the reward and leave her with her family.

What about an option to ask her what her plans for the future are? With the options representing some kind of passive benefit that she provides in the future:


A) "I always wanted to run a shop like father."
-Subquestion "Where?"

Melinda opens an extra shop in the chosen city, selling assorted stuff at a discount.

B) "Don't tell it around, but I always wanted to study magic."

Melinda moves to Angol, provides discounted enchanting. Option unavailable if you're running antimagic.

C) "I have seen the evils of magic myself... I want to join the Ziguranth."

Melinda moves to Zigur, provides discounted disenchanting. Only if running AM.



Other suggestions?

Parcae2 wrote:Do I think that the dialogue I wrote can be adopted into gameplay directly?

I'm sure there are games where you pretend to be a guy who dates a girl (wikipedia says - sims do that), but I'd kind of prefer that those games stay out of my Roguelikes.

Parcae2 wrote:I was being maybe 70% serious. If I might be 100% for a moment:

The creep factor in the dialogue doesn't come from a single awkward line, or even a lot of awkward lines - it comes from the situation. Melinda never does anything in the story, either in gameplay or verbally. She is an object, pure and simple. That makes the player character's attraction to her more than a little creepy. Then the player character whisks her away to an undersea fortress where (s)he alone controls access and egress, and leaves her standing in a corner like a sort of trophy. And her reaction to this proposal is that her father "doesn't need to be worried about her any more," because apparently the player character (whom she knows nothing about) is such a great catch.

Now, the whole "female character is an object" trope is kind of hard to avoid in gameplay. You're the player, and any attempt to make her have her own impact on gameplay is only going to wind up being irritating - not to mention making her look severely developmentally disabled, because she's controlled by the AI, so she is bound to misuse any abilities she receives. So I wouldn't recommend changing the actual mission.

The dialogue, though - that has no excuse. Do I think that the dialogue I wrote can be adopted into gameplay directly? That's for DG to decide. (At the very least, it might require some modifications for female PCs, for whom the "I'm pregnant" comment might invite some suspicious looks at the Fortress Butler). But do I think that it's an improvement on the original? Absolutely I do, and without a trace of irony. It gives Melinda an actual personality, with opinions and aims of her own. The player might like that personality or (s)he might hate it, but they at least should have some kind of reaction to it, instead of turning her into a kind of sex trophy.

When I have problems accepting the way that things are explicitly done in games, I usually let my imagination take over and add/modify a few things. For example, I assume that there are some tender scenes during the final Crypt escape which do let the player and Melinda start to know each other better, and that also you do more romantic-y things than just giving her a kiss (and by that I don't just mean sex) after she moves into the fortress.

If I were Melinda's father, I would be INCREDIBLY worried about her post-rescue. "Oh, sure, honey. You just got kidnapped, tortured, probably raped, and were almost sacrificed to summon a demon. I'M SURE NOTHING BAD WILL EVER HAPPEN AGAIN no but seriously you ain't leaving my sight, babygirl." Having an undeniably powerful person around my daughter and protecting her would give me considerable peace of mind, especially considering that she was probably kidnapped right from under my nose the first time.

The dialogue already in the game makes far more sense than yours. The game is a medieval fantasy piece, not a modern/science fiction piece. Your dialogue would have a much better place in a modern or sci-fi game, because it better reflects a modern mindset rather than an ancient one. It would be like if Linaniil's/Myssil's dialogue for fighting Urkis was changed to "Yo dude so Derth is getting - up. Any ideas?" "Yeah, it was this asshole Urkis, wanna go pop a cap in him for us?" "Sure, go ahead and send me there/tell me where he is."

(Also, I'm pretty sure Melinda can leave the fortress if she so chooses. I'm pretty sure the dialogue says "I'll meet you there" as opposed to "Let me take you there." There's no real reason to assume that Melinda can't operate the surface portals herself and hike to Derth now and then. Besides, she's gotta get food. You know, that eating thing.)

Personally, I really don't feel like the whole touching-her-stomach thing is so creepy. A.) during the crypt escape, she's pretty naked. So the player has already seen her naked, it's not like you're groping some complete strangers stomach. And, again, my headcanon includes tender moments that probably break the "touching barrier." B.) That scene makes a lot more sense if you envision two characters talking in an already somewhat-intimate fashion. With the way the game is set up, it feels like the two people are talking at her door. What if they were, say, sitting on a couch in the foyer of her home, hands held & etc.

Also, I'm rereading that dialogue now in the code... simple fact is: Melinda hits on you. HARD. She's practically throwing herself at you. You complain that she lacks personality, that she's "an object." But actually read that dialogue. "*She presses on her lower belly in a provocative way.* See, you can touch it. It is fine. No pain any more! This is thanks to you, my... dear friend." You didn't just grab her gut, she's saying "Yo touch me nao pls."

For reference, here is actual dialogue from the late Middle Ages:

So at that time there was a lady
dwelt in that forest, and she was a great huntress, and
daily she used to hunt, and ever she bare her bow with
her; and no men went never with her, but always women,
and they were shooters, and could well kill a deer, both at
the stalk and at the trest; and they daily bare bows and
arrows, horns and wood-knives, and many good dogs they
had, both for the string and for a bait. So it happed this
lady the huntress had abated her dog for the bow at a
barren hind, and so this barren hind took the flight over
hedges and woods. And ever this lady and part of her
women costed the hind, and checked it by the noise of
the hounds, to have met with the hind at some water;
and so it happed, the hind came to the well whereas Sir
Launcelot was sleeping and slumbering. And so when
the hind came to the well, for heat she went to soil, and
there she lay a great while; and the dog came after, and
umbecast about, for she had lost the very perfect feute of
the hind. Right so came that lady the huntress, that
knew by the dog that she had, that the hind was at the
soil in that well; and there she came stiffly and found the
hind, and she put a broad arrow in her bow, and shot at
the hind, and over-shot the hind; and so by misfortune
the arrow smote Sir Launcelot in the thick of the buttock,
over the barbs. When Sir Launcelot felt himself so hurt,
he hurled up woodly, and saw the lady that had smitten
him. And when he saw she was a woman, he said thus:
Lady or damosel, what that thou be, in an evil time bear
ye a bow; the devil made you a shooter.

By way of contrast, here's dialogue from Melinda, as it currently stands:

Hi, sweety!

Actual writing != actual dialogue. Nor does that snippet prove that your dialogue is any better than the games. IN POINT OF FACT, the game's dialogue is closer to that than yours is, considering that text is about how women shouldn't depart from traditional gender roles.

I like the idea of more Melinda development. I love the idea of it (optionally) being a ridiculously hilarious trope-fest (double checks to make sure he didn't spell that with a 'G'). But, first and foremost, I really must insist on one thing: GET HER OUT OF THAT BURLAP SACK! Melinda is supposed to be an incredibly beautiful woman from a wealthy family. Her dowry apparently includes a unique and highly enchanted artifact from times long lost. And she wears a potato sack when you get her home. Now I'm not asking for a stripper outfit or the standard fantasy "my armor works because all the guys are too distracted to hit me" thing (p.s. we need to make an artifact armor that works that way, AoE confusion on all male enemies, maybe if worn by a male it's AoE fear/blindness on ALL enemies), but something with at least a little color would be nice. Preferably the cut of one of the higher unique robes.

I normally play female PCs, and their post-rescue dialogue usually goes like, "Oh hi Melinda. Glad you're all better. Seeya."

If I want to talk to someone in my fortress and hear one line of dialogue, I've got my butler for that.

Oddly enough, there's actually code in the "Melinda, Lucky Girl" quest that turns her into a full-fledged adventuring companion, though there's no way to use it unless you activate cheat mode.