ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

I think that ToME needs and will always need more crazy classes, because that's basically what I play it for . So, I thought about making a mathematical-themed addon (name is work in progress). This class should rely on changing battlefield and enemies (unique feature ftw!) and good old melee combat.
Main stats are Str, Wil, Cun. Resurces are Stamina and Focus.
Focus dynamics: Focus attracts to 20% of maximum, just like Pos/Neg energy. If above 50%, every turn there is a chance that some talents won't decrease their cooldowns (you are so focused on doing math that you are half-stunned). Low-level talents (1, 2, 3 on unlocked trees, none or 1 on 10+ trees) increase Focus, higher-level consume vast amount of it, so, you'll need to suffer half-stun to actually cast them. Focus scales with Wil (boring, I know).

Heres my thoughts on talent trees:
Dirty Fighting 1.1 - not sure if locked or not. This class should benefit from it due to Cun being generally useful, but is it Knight-y?
Combat Tech 1.1 - definitely, and definitely unlocked, because melee is hard without it. (If you think otherwise, tell me).

Calculus Combat/Limits (1.3, Cun):
level 1: Unbound Sequence: for every given number, you'll have a greater one for some point in future!
Gain (50-250, talent lvl)% global speed bonus and continue to attack for 3 turns or until first miss with increasing base power. Every critical you land extends the duration of effect for 1 turn. You will instantly follow your opponent if it runs staying within your sight/infravision range, but the effect will break if it vanishes from your sight, including invisibility or hiding in plain sight.
level 2: Uniform Convergence: an uniformly convergent series converges to nearby numbers in nearby points.
All weapon damage you do within (6-10) turns is divided in equal parts and dealt over time, no more than (50%-100%, talent lvl) base weapon damage per turn; any weapon damage dealt to the same enemy while this effect is in action is postponed until it ends. When all damage is dealt and nothing is postponed anymore, enemy also receives extra damage, ignoring resistances, for 3 turns, each turn damage is (20-80%, scales with Str) of last turn's, first turn's is based on last damage done with aforementioned effect. (Whew, this sounds compilcated, isn't it? Basically, all damage you do is smeared over time, and receives additional "echo" effect for bonus damage. Numbers are subject for tweaking and a point for feedback!)
level 3: Conditional Convergence: by switching places of terms, you can greatly change the outcome!
Activated, gives you (500%-1000%, scales with talent lvl and maybe Dex?) speed, Free Action and ability to shuffle with critter or normal enemies - for 1 game turn (I'll try and make sure to make it full turn). If you do something that is not shuffling, this effect ends. Has 20ish cooldown.
level 4: Radius of Convergence: a series has a limit inside a disk, and bad outside of it.
Pins all creatures in radius 3-6, and increases your damage against them. This effect ends after 5 turns or when you leave the disk yourself. As long as you stay in center, it will also pin any new creatures coming into radius.

Calculus Combat/Infinitesimal (1.3, locked, 10+, Cun):
level 1: Differentiation: a derivative represents a relation between change of an argument and an outcome.
Hit a nearby foe for 100% weapon damage; if an attack lands, it will lose 10n % of its current life and all other resources, and n clones with 10% of its life and all other resources will emerge nearby. They will be sided with him, permanent, and will continue to exist after his death, so beware!
level 2: Integration: integration is adding infinite amount of zeros together.
Place an aura on a creature (including yourself) for 5-9 turns. It will absorb all damage done, predating shields, resistances and other special effects, and after an effect ends, inflict 10% of absorbed damage, bypassing damage shields and resistances.
level 3: Fundamental Theorem: there seems to be some connection between tangents and areas!
Sustain for max Focus: all weapons have Mind burst on hit, including when using weapons in special abilities; all non-melee abilites have their range increased by 1.
level 4: Mathematical Model: "How can it be that mathematics <...> is so admirably appropriate to the objects of reality?"
For simplicity, you assume that target creature is dumb and simple for 5 turns; your ability to correctly predict its behaviour under such heavy assumptions confuses every creature in a radius 2-4 of target for around 3 turns. The power and duration of confusion scales with your Willpower.

Math/Set theory (1.1, Wil): sets are building blocks for mathematical universe.
level 1: Finite Set: a finite set can be defined by enumerating its elements.
Damage all seen creatures of certain general type for 50-150 Mind damage, scales with Wil.
level 2:Countable Set: a set which elements can be counted using natural numbers.
Project an infinite-(or 15-?)range beam, slightly damaging all creatures in its way and bringing them as close to you as possible along the beam.
level 3: Diagonal proof: there are sets that are beyond being countable.
Sustain for max Focus: you convert all Mind damage you do to a type of damage that the foe has the least resistance for (except for physical), thus providing a counter-example. Your attacks may also trigger special effects based on damage type.
level 4: von Neumann universe: numbers are sets of sets of empty sets; they mean nothing to you.
For next X turns, you may ignore a hit if it would take more than 10% of your max life. After Y ignored hits, this effect ends.

Math/Topology (1.1, Wil): a study of shapes and spaces. [Probably generic talent tree]
level 1: Compact space: I cannot think of witty description here.
You surround yourself with a compact space of radius 3, which repels incoming projectiles and damages all creatures crossing its borders. For each projectile or creature crossing a border, the duration of this effect is lowered by one.
level 2: Haussdorf space: distinct points have disjoint neighbourhoods..
Each creature attacking you in melee combat (attacking and standing in melee range, to be precise) is knocked back for 3-5 tiles, suffering damage if it hits a wall or if it is immovable/knockback immune/pinned.
level 3: Homotopy: two objects are homotopic if there is continuous deformation of one into another.
Lower creature's life, increasing its level and ability levels. Cannot be casted on yourself.
level 4: Topological equivalence: many different real-life objects are actually very alike in topology.
Replaces a creature with abother one of the same level and type, assuming their topological equivalence. Rares, uniques and bosses are too special to be equivalent to something, and this ability will fail on them. This costs all of your Focus and then some .

Math/Forbidden (1.1, Wil, locked 10+): in your quest for ultimate truth, you tap despised and forbidden hypothesa of mathematics. [Generic tree, too]
level 1: Continuum Hypothesis: you refuse it with your heart, allowing you to stare into unknown number of infinities between natural and real numbers.
This passive ability increases the threshold for Focus to half-stun you and reduces the cooldown of all Math talents by two and all Calculus Combat talents by 1. The threshold increase scales with Wil.
level 2: Parallel Postulate: exploring its alternatives allows you to slightly bend straight lines.
Targeting an empty space with beam or bolt Math or Calculus Combat ability will seek nearby foe in radius X and hit it instead. It will also allow Countable Set ability to draw single-standing creatures slightly off the line.
level 3: Axiom of Choice: as inconstructive as it may be, things that you can make with it drive you crazy.
Increases the number of Differentiation derivatives, and lets you switch places with any friendly target in radius X as if it is was standing near you.
level 4: Riemann Hypothesis: this insanely complex hypothesis is so beautiful and promising, you just don't want to wait for it to be proved.
The only non-passive ability in this tree. Upon activating it, you get a status effect for 14-10 turns that will cancel if you get hit (shield counts, too), attack, or use a talent. After this effect comes off naturally, you will get one-turn opportunity to do 2000% damage with your next attack or ability. This effect will also regenerate your Focus insanely fast, and after final blow, you will be left with exactly zero.

Calculus Combat/Complex Analysis (1.3, Cun): [Generic tree, definitely]
level 1: Entire function: any non-constant entire function on a complex plane is unbounded and has a root.
Teleport to a random point of radius X cone, no closer than Y.
level 2: Pole: a pole is well-behaved, isolated singularity.
Create a pole on the ground. Anything stepping on it will be violently knocked back in random available direction (one of .
level 3: Removable singularity: it's merely cosmetic, and it's possible to redefine a function to remove it.
Render a tile impassable, for no good reason. If somebody is standing there, it will suffocate and won't be able to leave.
level 4: Essential singularity: it's not removable, and is not well-behaved.
Place an essential singularity, rendering tile impassable for all kinds of movement, with a chance to confuse, draw closer or knock back random target in range X each turn.
Only one singularity may exist simultaneously.

Combat training (1.3) and Survival (1.0), too; Survival possibly locked.

Thoughts, suggestions, corrections of my English?

I think Paradox would be fine to use as the resource for this.

Also, I find the idea quite funny.

HousePet wrote:I think Paradox would be fine to use as the resource for this.

Well, maybe you are right... Although Paradox is strictly chrono-themed, and it will be hard to hand-wave it onto this class. Psi (using mathematics will damage your mental health!) is easier to handwave, but feels VERY wrong. That's why I'd better opt for new resource here, although I agree that its mechanics are far from perfect...
Another thing with Paradox is that it would be probably expected that effects/damage will scale with Paradox. As there is rather small amount of skills that do any damage, this would feel a bit pointless.

HousePet wrote:Also, I find the idea quite funny.

That was (kind of) a point . I'm glad you like the idea!

I also love the idea, it looks like a lot of fun!

0player wrote:Focus dynamics: Focus attracts to 20% of maximum, just like Pos/Neg energy. If above 50%, every turn there is a chance that some talents won't decrease their cooldowns (you are so focused on doing math that you are half-stunned). Low-level talents (1, 2, 3 on unlocked trees, none or 1 on 10+ trees) increase Focus, higher-level consume vast amount of it, so, you'll need to suffer half-stun to actually cast them. Focus scales with Wil (boring, I know).

I'll spare you my usual rant on new resources because in your case I agree the existing ones don't fit. General note on scaling: existing non-passive talents in tome usually scale worse than linearly since you have a constant resource outlay - check out some existing ones.

Calculus Combat/Limits (1.3, Cun):
level 1: Unbound Sequence: for every given number, you'll have a greater one for some point in future!
Gain (50-250, talent lvl)% global speed bonus and continue to attack for 3 turns or until first miss with increasing base power. Every critical you land extends the duration of effect for 1 turn. You will instantly follow your opponent if it runs staying within your sight/infravision range, but the effect will break if it vanishes from your sight, including invisibility or hiding in plain sight.

Sounds fun, but may need some kind of... limit. A hefty (maybe increasing) resource cost, possibly. More interesting, granted, would be to see how far it'll go. Nice synergies with timeless or luck of the little folk. Global speed scaling should probably use something similar to Blinding Speed et al. Seems to be better placed as a higher level talent, since it should need good accuracy and crit rate to shine.

level 2: Uniform Convergence: an uniformly convergent series converges to nearby numbers in nearby points.
All weapon damage you do within (6-10) turns is divided in equal parts and dealt over time, no more than (50%-100%, talent lvl) base weapon damage per turn; any weapon damage dealt to the same enemy while this effect is in action is postponed until it ends. When all damage is dealt and nothing is postponed anymore, enemy also receives extra damage, ignoring resistances, for 3 turns, each turn damage is (20-80%, scales with Str) of last turn's, first turn's is based on last damage done with aforementioned effect. (Whew, this sounds compilcated, isn't it? Basically, all damage you do is smeared over time, and receives additional "echo" effect for bonus damage. Numbers are subject for tweaking and a point for feedback!)

So anti-smearing with a three turn finale? And you want the last "smeared" hit to count special? Numbers are over my head, but I'd make the "smeared" duration constant (since longer may well be bad for you, and that way you know where you're at) and shorter (only useful for boss-fights otherwise and unwieldy even then). Can't say I like it much, seems a lot of curlicues with little raison d'?tre.

level 3: Conditional Convergence: by switching places of terms, you can greatly change the outcome!
Activated, gives you (500%-1000%, scales with talent lvl and maybe Dex?) speed, Free Action and ability to shuffle with critter or normal enemies - for 1 game turn (I'll try and make sure to make it full turn). If you do something that is not shuffling, this effect ends. Has 20ish cooldown.

Wouldn't scale with Dex if you're Str/Wil/Cun, but with one of those. Although Dex is already nice for Limits (accuracy, dual wielding?), may be a possibility for variation.

level 4: Radius of Convergence: a series has a limit inside a disk, and bad outside of it.
Pins all creatures in radius 3-6, and increases your damage against them. This effect ends after 5 turns or when you leave the disk yourself. As long as you stay in center, it will also pin any new creatures coming into radius.

Really like this one. Possible may want to slow projectiles as well, or it'll be not all that great against ranged enemies.

Calculus Combat/Infinitesimal (1.3, locked, 10+, Cun):
level 1: Differentiation: a derivative represents a relation between change of an argument and an outcome.
Hit a nearby foe for 100% weapon damage; if an attack lands, it will lose 10n % of its current life and all other resources, and n clones with 10% of its life and all other resources will emerge nearby. They will be sided with him, permanent, and will continue to exist after his death, so beware!

Why would I want to do this again?

level 2: Integration: integration is adding infinite amount of zeros together.
Place an aura on a creature (including yourself) for 5-9 turns. It will absorb all damage done, predating shields, resistances and other special effects, and after an effect ends, inflict 10% of absorbed damage, bypassing damage shields and resistances.

Seems an iffy way to turn nice Dot damage on myself into a one-shot (possible use when waiting for a heroism rune to come off cd). In exchange for 90% resist all? Well that may work. And on enemies to give them a lease on life with the benefit of being able to do 10% damage regardless of resistance. Hmm.

level 3: Fundamental Theorem: there seems to be some connection between tangents and areas!
Sustain for max Focus: all weapons have Mind burst on hit, including when using weapons in special abilities; all non-melee abilites have their range increased by 1.

I'd suggest temporal damage here. Mind can be resisted with mind save, which would be weird. While temporal mainly is resisted by people messing with the very fabric of time and space iself, which would be appropiate.

level 4: Mathematical Model: "How can it be that mathematics <...> is so admirably appropriate to the objects of reality?"
For simplicity, you assume that target creature is dumb and simple for 5 turns; your ability to correctly predict its behaviour under such heavy assumptions confuses every creature in a radius 2-4 of target for around 3 turns. The power and duration of confusion scales with your Willpower.

Another cool one. I think it's possible to force monsters to use the simple AI, which would make sense as an extra benefit.

Math/Set theory (1.1, Wil): sets are building blocks for mathematical universe.
level 1: Finite Set: a finite set can be defined by enumerating its elements.
Damage all seen creatures of certain general type for 50-150 Mind damage, scales with Wil.

Mind makes more sense here, since you're sorta... disbelieving them? Denying their individuality? Still, temporal damage has this classy silver-grey, way better than mind yellow.

level 2:Countable Set: a set which elements can be counted using natural numbers.
Project an infinite-(or 15-?)range beam, slightly damaging all creatures in its way and bringing them as close to you as possible along the beam.

Sounds fun. Infinite length could lead to surprises, but hilarious ones.

level 3: Diagonal proof: there are sets that are beyond being countable.
Sustain for max Focus: you convert all Mind damage you do to a type of damage that the foe has the least resistance for (except for physical), thus providing a counter-example. Your attacks may also trigger special effects based on damage type.

How does it scale with talent points and stats? Why not convert a percentage of all damage?

level 4: von Neumann universe: numbers are sets of sets of empty sets; they mean nothing to you.
For next X turns, you may ignore a hit if it would take more than 10% of your max life. After Y ignored hits, this effect ends.

Maybe want to turn this into a sustain a la Boneshield. If you don't, people are just gonna rest off the cd somewhere safe. May take some balancing.

Math/Topology (1.1, Wil): a study of shapes and spaces. [Probably generic talent tree]
level 1: Compact space: I cannot think of witty description here.
You surround yourself with a compact space of radius 3, which repels incoming projectiles and damages all creatures crossing its borders. For each projectile or creature crossing a border, the duration of this effect is lowered by one.

Would be nice if it kept the theme from Radius of Convergence and stayed in place.

level 2: Haussdorf space: distinct points have disjoint neighbourhoods..
Each creature attacking you in melee combat (attacking and standing in melee range, to be precise) is knocked back for 3-5 tiles, suffering damage if it hits a wall or if it is immovable/knockback immune/pinned.

Interesting. Nice synergy with RoC there.

level 3: Homotopy: two objects are homotopic if there is continuous deformation of one into another.
Lower creature's life, increasing its level and ability levels. Cannot be casted on yourself.

Probably not easy to balance.

level 4: Topological equivalence: many different real-life objects are actually very alike in topology.
Replaces a creature with abother one of the same level and type, assuming their topological equivalence. Rares, uniques and bosses are too special to be equivalent to something, and this ability will fail on them. This costs all of your Focus and then some .

A super-costly nuke and that doesn't work on anything above elite rank? And then it doesn't even kill its target? Have the replacement be only X% of the originals level, and the cost could scale with rank (which is a number, conveniently). It should also do something to bosses and the like - possibly put Y talents on cd due to a moment of existential uncertainty.

Math/Forbidden (1.1, Wil, locked 10+): in your quest for ultimate truth, you tap despised and forbidden hypothesa of mathematics. [Generic tree, too]
level 1: Continuum Hypothesis: you refuse it with your heart, allowing you to stare into unknown number of infinities between natural and real numbers.
This passive ability increases the threshold for Focus to half-stun you and reduces the cooldown of all Math talents by two and all Calculus Combat talents by 1. The threshold increase scales with Wil.

Make it so you get cd reductions at talent (effective) points 1, 3 and 6 - you'd only get the 6 with a cat point or mastery item.

level 2: Parallel Postulate: exploring its alternatives allows you to slightly bend straight lines.
Targeting an empty space with beam or bolt Math or Calculus Combat ability will seek nearby foe in radius X and hit it instead. It will also allow Countable Set ability to draw single-standing creatures slightly off the line.

Again talent = 1, 3, 6 for X=1, 2, 3?

level 3: Axiom of Choice: as inconstructive as it may be, things that you can make with it drive you crazy.
Increases the number of Differentiation derivatives, and lets you switch places with any friendly target in radius X as if it is was standing near you.

Where would you get those friendly targets from?

level 4: Riemann Hypothesis: this insanely complex hypothesis is so beautiful and promising, you just don't want to wait for it to be proved.
The only non-passive ability in this tree. Upon activating it, you get a status effect for 14-10 turns that will cancel if you get hit (shield counts, too), attack, or use a talent. After this effect comes off naturally, you will get one-turn opportunity to do 2000% damage with your next attack or ability. This effect will also regenerate your Focus insanely fast, and after final blow, you will be left with exactly zero.

Sounds unfun. Wait somewhere safe, use track from an item or escort, then on the last turns charge from hiding.

Calculus Combat/Complex Analysis (1.3, Cun): [Generic tree, definitely]
level 1: Entire function: any non-constant entire function on a complex plane is unbounded and has a root.
Teleport to a random point of radius X cone, no closer than Y.

Fair enough.

level 2: Pole: a pole is well-behaved, isolated singularity.
Create a pole on the ground. Anything stepping on it will be violently knocked back in random available direction (one of .

Interesting. I take it duration and knockback distance scale with talent and Cunning?

level 3: Removable singularity: it's merely cosmetic, and it's possible to redefine a function to remove it.
Render a tile impassable, for no good reason. If somebody is standing there, it will suffocate and won't be able to leave.

Ehmmm... duration? And maybe temporal (silver, yay) damage instead of suffocation, since several types of monsters don't need to breathe and its not easy to check which of them. It's also a bit quotidian if you're removed from existence and what kills you is lack of air.

level 4: Essential singularity: it's not removable, and is not well-behaved.
Place an essential singularity, rendering tile impassable for all kinds of movement, with a chance to confuse, draw closer or knock back random target in range X each turn.
Only one singularity may exist simultaneously.

Interesting.

Seems a fun class, if you're using stamina-based combat trees, maybe there should be some way to regain stamina as well. Also do you envision people going sword and board, two-handed or 1h/dagger? Mindstars? Look through the talents on how they interact with different choices there. I'm guessing the abilities are mindpowers and/or combat techniques, so antimagic would be an option as well.

jotwebe wrote:I'll spare you my usual rant on new resources because in your case I agree the existing ones don't fit. General note on scaling: existing non-passive talents in tome usually scale worse than linearly since you have a constant resource outlay - check out some existing ones.

I use this quote mainly to thank you for reading this wall of text and contibuting very useful comments. That's very nice of you!

jotwebe wrote:Sounds fun, but may need some kind of... limit. A hefty (maybe increasing) resource cost, possibly. More interesting, granted, would be to see how far it'll go. Nice synergies with timeless or luck of the little folk. Global speed scaling should probably use something similar to Blinding Speed et al. Seems to be better placed as a higher level talent, since it should need good accuracy and crit rate to shine.

The last point is especially fair. Maybe lvl 2 is fair enough? Especially since existing lvl 2 may need some rework.

jotwebe wrote:So anti-smearing with a three turn finale? And you want the last "smeared" hit to count special? Numbers are over my head, but I'd make the "smeared" duration constant (since longer may well be bad for you, and that way you know where you're at) and shorter (only useful for boss-fights otherwise and unwieldy even then). Can't say I like it much, seems a lot of curlicues with little raison d'?tre.

I grudgingly agree that the talent with such lenghty description is probably no good. Should probably rework/replace this one. Moving Unbound Sequence to lvl 2 and making stamina-themed first-level talent sounds reasonable.

jotwebe wrote:Wouldn't scale with Dex if you're Str/Wil/Cun, but with one of those. Although Dex is already nice for Limits (accuracy, dual wielding?), may be a possibility for variation.

Kind of what I've been aiming for. I try to create a possibility for little variety in play styles.

jotwebe wrote:Really like this one. Possible may want to slow projectiles as well, or it'll be not all that great against ranged enemies.

Fair enough.

jotwebe wrote:Why would I want to do this again?

Wait, wait, don't go away, I had a reason, I just forgot!..
Given that KoC don't really have many options for area damage, this is probably rather pointless (only for trying to take them one by one if it's a melee boss? Sounds like anti-Prox and nobody more). Will throw away.

jotwebe wrote:Seems an iffy way to turn nice Dot damage on myself into a one-shot (possible use when waiting for a heroism rune to come off cd). In exchange for 90% resist all? Well that may work. And on enemies to give them a lease on life with the benefit of being able to do 10% damage regardless of resistance. Hmm.

What concerns me here is that it may be used as bland 90% resist all. However, if used on foes, I probably don't want much more than 10%, no more than 50% for sure. Maybe different percentages? Sounds like crappy solution, honestly. Needs more thought.

jotwebe wrote:I'd suggest temporal damage here. Mind can be resisted with mind save, which would be weird. While temporal mainly is resisted by people messing with the very fabric of time and space iself, which would be appropiate.

I hesitate assigning temporal, mainly because it has nothing to do with time and not enough to do with space. Physical, maybe? Or too unflavored?

jotwebe wrote:Another cool one. I think it's possible to force monsters to use the simple AI, which would make sense as an extra benefit.

That's exactly what I hinted in the description . But I thought more along the lines of replacing tactical with dumb talented simple, with confusing it makes powerful enough sum.

jotwebe wrote:Mind makes more sense here, since you're sorta... disbelieving them? Denying their individuality? Still, temporal damage has this classy silver-grey, way better than mind yellow.

This talent is inspired by an old Soviet animation about a calf who caused fear in other animals by counting them, and this defined the damage type, I guess. Mind also suits thematically for this class - sort of, but resisting it completely with mind save can be pretty awful.

jotwebe wrote:How does it scale with talent points and stats? Why not convert a percentage of all damage?

Of course, of course a percentage, that was a typo. Percentage scales with talent points (70 to 100, I think), special effect chance scales with Cun.

jotwebe wrote:Maybe want to turn this into a sustain a la Boneshield. If you don't, people are just gonna rest off the cd somewhere safe. May take some balancing.

I'm awful at thinking about sustain implications. Thanks for the input.

jotwebe wrote:Would be nice if it kept the theme from Radius of Convergence and stayed in place.

I guess I'll test it both ways, but thanks for the idea!

jotwebe wrote:A super-costly nuke and that doesn't work on anything above elite rank? And then it doesn't even kill its target? Have the replacement be only X% of the originals level, and the cost could scale with rank (which is a number, conveniently). It should also do something to bosses and the like - possibly put Y talents on cd due to a moment of existential uncertainty.

Couldn't have been corrected better.

About singularities: duration scales with Wil, radius with level, knock/pull intensity with Cun.

jotwebe wrote:Seems a fun class, if you're using stamina-based combat trees, maybe there should be some way to regain stamina as well. Also do you envision people going sword and board, two-handed or 1h/dagger? Mindstars? Look through the talents on how they interact with different choices there. I'm guessing the abilities are mindpowers and/or combat techniques, so antimagic would be an option as well.

Antimagic is another reason why I don't want temporal and was trying to stick with Mind, although I don't know how well would slimy nature and perfect numbers interact.
Dual wielding is not something I'd try to pull with this class, although I don't know about mindstars. I mainly see 1h+shield here, because there is less mobility/beefiness that would be ideal for 2h weapon.