b0rsuk wrote:Once upon a time I checked the Inscriptions page of Tome4 wiki, and was flabbergasted:
ToME4's inscription system is one of the biggest gameplay changes from traditional roguelike games. First introduced in beta 14, the inscriptions (infusions and runes) replace potions and scrolls. The design goal behind inscriptions is to eliminate the time spent by the player "farming" potions and scrolls in weak zones, in order to make a run at a tougher zone. They are unlimited in use, but have cooldowns attached, so you must carefully time your use of them to survive. Unlike many other RPGs you cannot rely on a large stack of potions to get you through a tough battle. Mastery of the inscription system is a key step towards mastering ToME4.
Inscriptions a way to eliminate farming ? Really ?! In a game where vast majority of zones has no respawning enemies, what is there to grind ? You could easily introduce one-use potions in the game and it wouldn't break balance, because monsters are almost always finite.
Take a look at Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup. It technically has unlimited monsters, but the spawn rate is very slow after a level is cleared and the game's hunger mechanic doesn't allow you to stay on one level indifinitely (There are exceptions, like Mummies and Kobolds, but you don't see anyone doing that with a Kobold at least). The DCSS way of handling too difficult zones is either run past most dangerous monsters, or go explore a different dungeon branch.
I don't mind that Tome4 has inscriptions and runes - it plays differently than other roguelikes and that's nice. But as DCSS shows, in a game like this it's completely not required to eliminate grinding. In fact, inscriptions
enable grinding in areas like Ruined Dungeon, Orc Breeding Pit, or with adventurer parties. But once these ways are removed, the game will be pretty much grinding-free.
Inscriptions were included back in an era of ToME where it was much more possible to grind, to discourage grinding specifically for more resources.
It's really hard to fathom how much ToME has changed over time without at least looking at some somewhat older code. Even I don't really have a feel for it, but I know enough about ToME before I got here to say that that change sounds reasonable.
As to the rest of that...I'm gonna be honest here. I wouldn't look to Crawl for a good way to avoid grinding. It has, but it's essentially a house of cards effect, and nowhere near as simple as "It has a food clock".
The food clock handling in Crawl is inherently flawed as an anti-grinding system, and optimal runs would basically always grind somewhat. There's an optimal point where enemies grant you enough food by appearing without starving you with any race-sure, it's just a little bit of grinding, there, and it's unreliable, but it's there. (Unless you're one of the high metabolism races.)
Optimal grinding would do things like revisit anywhere with decent EXP once you get hunger mitigation(especially if you get Necromutation), grind a Mummy every floor for thousands upon thousands of turns(Wait, people actually do this), etc, as well.
Oh, and there's Pan/Abyss, which are literal infinite grinding grounds and usually grant enough food for it(Especially the Abyss...Pan I remember being kinda weird about food, dropping more on the floor but having less edible enemies?).
Dangerous, but...well, unless the newnewAbyss that replaced the new Abyss since I last played has changed things notably enough, you can still reasonably grind the Abyss at, say, the same levels and gear you can handle most branch ends at. If you don't mind missing runes, Pan's probably better, even, especially if you have some decent permafood so that playing the odds is safer.
There's other reasons heavy grinding hasn't happened as a general thing, I think.
First, the game has no higher difficulties, so there's no reason to grasp that kind of advantage. In fact, the player metagame has basically gone more towards speedrunning for higher challenge, or running challenging combinations(which often tend to have more restrictive food clocks, like Trolls and Ogres, or off-type casters, which consume more nourishment); Basically only Mummy challenge runs really encourage grinding. So, there's no place for it for high end players.
Next, with the heavy RNG emphasis, it's terribly, horribly short-sighted to ever grind in Crawl-it's more efficient to splat and rerun unless you're past Lair, and it's questionable even then... and clearing the game five levels under the fairly low EXP cap is easily possible, even if you're not a godplayer, just by getting good gear or playing carefully enough.
For a short version...I'd say Crawl's version works because of a combination of general metaplay shying away from grinding, level impact not being all that high, levels capping fairly easily on the average run, and grinding giving very few advantages(enemies don't tend to drop the important loot, so it's basically just EXP).
Oh, and the lack of higher difficulty modes, and that the game's pretty short, so running again for better advantages from the RNG(less nasty enemy placement, better loot) is generally faster and more effective.
You could probably turn every Crawl resource into rechargeables tomorrow, and rip out the food clock, and it wouldn't change much, in this regard. (In a lot of other regards, sure; It would imbalance the heck out of the game without some retooling, of course... But I don't think people would grind much more.)
But this is kinda off topic.
Just thinking about the comparison.
