ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

From 5 to 6. In addition to the category rank effect.

Seems like a relatively easy way to up the impact of a category point in an interesting way, without making it instantly busted. Something that players have been complaining about a while. And I can't really see any abusive or degenerate potential.

Thoughts?

Some things already scale quite well, like shadows. If you cat point it and then get to dump more points in on top of that, especially with additonal mastery bonus from equipment, could you reach levels unreasonable? Doomed builds regard a fourth shadow as worth a cat point by itself, if you get even MORE after the bonus cat points, does this become OP? (Example, not the only thing that scales well. Anorithil corona/hymn of moonlight also come to mind. I'm sure there are others.)

Also, is the cap based on a cat point being invested or not, or just on the multiplier value? (Would increased multiplier from one or several pieces of equipment result in a raised cap as well?)

If it doesn't reach levels that trivialise the choice to the point that there's no reason to NOT put a cat point in a category, then I'm all for this, concerns about abuse aside. (OTOH, if it exists, it will be abused somehow, so I really shouldn't worry.)

Some things as of 1.0.4 do eventually go out of control(hilariously, not Shadows. More stuff like Essence of Speed).

However, infinite talent scaling methods are being gradually added in the depository, designed to keep them from going out of control when enemies have the talents/for Infinite Dungeon players. From what I've seen of the results, I think it'd be very safe, next version.

I think that the first priority should be to make investing a cat point into vast majority of talents to not be a waste not preventing some talents to go overboard... After all scaling of problem talents can be nerfed

I like the suggestion in OP as it does make interesting choices. Point into conditioning for high constitution character? Viable. Point into racials? Viable for undeads at the very least. Point into flame? Not only it will give a more noticeable damage boost, but all durations inside will raise too

If that change will boost the option to much, change it to +1 to cap and +0.1 mastery instead of +0.2 to mastery

I like the idea a lot, but as others have said there would have to be measures taken to prevent some categories from spiraling out of control.

Like I said, I think those measures are already basically being taken in depo.

You can see the changes to Mana/Gift talents already; as far as I'm aware, the plan is to update everything.

Might be better to bring up after the changes are fully in. Then again, nothing says I can't just bump this if people like the idea, when that happens.

Or, you know, remove the mastery system and have everything be uniform.

Final Master wrote:Or, you know, remove the mastery system and have everything be uniform.

Bad Idea. It makes SENSE for there to be mastery, both so equipment can boost the tree (which makes for good artifacts), and so the classes are more distinct (seeing something with X and a modifier higher then normal, and something with X at a 1.0 modifier denoting they are less skilled at that.) Or to keep escort talents from becoming stronger then on-class talents.

Just bump the mastery value up to at least +0.3

This would be a small difference but it hits level/2 breakpoints at level 5 now (current gives 6.5 -> 7.5 => 3, would be 8.0 => 4)

SageAcrin wrote: You can see the changes to Mana/Gift talents already; as far as I'm aware, the plan is to update everything.

Might be better to bring up after the changes are fully in. Then again, nothing says I can't just bump this if people like the idea, when that happens.

BTW are there page with brief description of changes in source code after it migrated? I kinda liked to visit the old one...

Umbrall wrote:Just bump the mastery value up to at least +0.3
This would be a small difference but it hits level/2 breakpoints at level 5 now (current gives 6.5 -> 7.5 => 3, would be 8.0 => 4)

Unlike the suggestion in OP it gives no bonus to talents that do not scale with mastery, thick skin and the likes

Well, in principle thick skin (and many others) could be rebalanced to scale of adjusted talent level, say 2% per. Alternatively, there's no reason every talent needs to benefit from mastery in every aspect. I fail to see the problem there.

The purpose of raw level is to keep things from scaling too highly and to have a cap. If you ignore this you break its purpose regardless of whether it's giving another level or changing it.

Yes, that's true.

However, if any skill instantly got out of hand one raw talent level above 5, the game wouldn't function. Enemies get rawtalents greater than 5 constantly.

If there's one I don't know about, I'd like to hear it, but I don't think any of them really go totally crazy at 6.

The only real things to worry about are A: Does it work now, B: Is it easy to adjust to when making new talents(yes, definitely), and C: Is it worthwhile and necessary?

C, I generally feel, the answer is yes. So it's mostly a question of A, I think.

Strongpoint wrote: BTW are there page with brief description of changes in source code after it migrated? I kinda liked to visit the old one...

Was wondering this myself, I used to use http://git.develz.org/?p=tome.git;a=summary, but it looks like the code was moved: http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=38116

I can't figure out how to view a summary of recent changes like before though.