ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

So... thinking about somethign from a different thread, the jump east feels kind of weird to me as an antimagic character. I'm going along, doing my thing as a rabid hater of all arcane magics, betraying every escort that I have the option to - and then I get east, and the first thing I do is defend an Anorithil? ....and then I have a nice chat with a Sun Paladin in which I mention having met some of her compatriots, but not what I did with them. (I think maybe I mention that even if I didn't meet any, though I don't know that for sure). I then wander off to a spider-infested forest to save another sun paladin and etc, etc, etc. The fact that I despise magic and all its works just stops being pertinent (from a storyline perspective).

The orcs, on the other hand, have a faction that uses no magic of their own, that actually contains mage-hunters, and that has reasons to hate the magic-using orcs. It seems like that would fit right in as a branch point for the storyline. They want to wipe out the Sunwall, not out of any weird orcish supremacy, but because it's full of filthy magic users. (admittedly, they're not as virulent about it as the Zig, but when you include in your tribe a number of influential members who have built up the magic-hate enough to channel the world's rage as one of their primary ways of doing business, and you exclude magic-users entirely, it'll start to have an effect on how you see the world.

First step would be to change the player. - on joining the zig, you get Ziguranth faction. Then have the orc that greets you, fighting against the Anorithil after you head east, be a wilder of some variety - and if you're ig faction, have the default friend/enemy roles reversed. It's no a trivial amount of work by any stretch (for oen thing, you have to almost completely rewrite the plot for that side of the world) but I think it could work pretty well.

The orcs pissed everyone off so badly that after their hegemony was broken they were hunted to extinction in the West. This happened less than a century ago, and people probably still hear about orcs as being pretty much distilled evil. Imagine them as literal Nazis planning to conquer your home country, and then ask yourself whether you would join their side under any circumstances - even if some of them were idealogically aligned with you on, I don't know, probably any strongly-held political belief.

Yeah you were brought up thinking of orcs as pure evil (that they really are or not is an entirely different matter obviously).
Think it this way, people hate the mages because of the spellblaze; guess who triggered mages into doing that ? Yup, Orcs.

And no orcs are not attacking the sunwal becasue they use magic. They are attacking to protect what they see as their land, to protect their very future.
Orcs may have internal quabbles but they are one of the most united race still, and any disagreement between prides is quickly set aside in the face of a racial threat (yes, that's you! :> )

Except... we have these notes from the orc leaders saying things like "well, I know that the guys leading us aren't orcs, and that's pretty offensive, and I'll want to deal with them eventually, but first we need to do bad things to this other pride over here". Admittedly, I haven't seen all that *much* of the lore n that continent, so I may be missing stuff, but that's what I've seen.

Also, one of the most united races? The Thaloren all pretty much live up in their little enclave up north, loving wilderness and being not-so-fond of magic. The yeek are all bound together in one big, happy groupmind. The dwarves are likewise pretty unified.

Still - fair enough. I can credit the idea that even for the Zig, working with orcs would be more offensive than working with magic users. Being Zig still makes the process of going to work for the Sunwall, and getting along with them so well, a bit surreal.

darkgod wrote:Think it this way, people hate the mages because of the spellblaze; guess who triggered mages into doing that ? Yup, Orcs.

Hum, and who was it that triggered the orcs to go rampaging to begin with...

... ruddy halflings. Is there anything that doesn't ultimately boil down to their fault? Kudos to them for apparently managing to paint all that mess as someone else's responsibility, though.

Also kinda' wonder what would have happened if the midgets hadn't been arseholes all throughout history. Races united under Garkul as a peaceful alliance, working to quell the fearscape? Between orc technology and the varying magical and natural techniques of the west... man, Maj'Eyal could have been a flippin' magitek utopia.

But nope, halflings had to go and ruin everything. Good job breaking it, hobbits.

lol

Frumple wrote:

darkgod wrote:Think it this way, people hate the mages because of the spellblaze; guess who triggered mages into doing that ? Yup, Orcs.

Hum, and who was it that triggered the orcs to go rampaging to begin with...

... ruddy halflings. Is there anything that doesn't ultimately boil down to their fault? Kudos to them for apparently managing to paint all that mess as someone else's responsibility, though.

Also kinda' wonder what would have happened if the midgets hadn't been arseholes all throughout history. Races united under Garkul as a peaceful alliance, working to quell the fearscape? Between orc technology and the varying magical and natural techniques of the west... man, Maj'Eyal could have been a flippin' magitek utopia.

But nope, halflings had to go and ruin everything. Good job breaking it, hobbits.

Speaking as a loyal furry footed friend, it's not OUR fault they refused to accept there rightful place as our servants, given that we are the clearly superior race. You're just lucky that we deigned to work with you to help fight off these silly orcs, thinking they are better then us. You're really no better then them, all your genes are just the imperfect leftovers that were cast aside after we were made by our god. Thus is explained the origin of all other races.

...Some of the gods too.

Edit: Also, good job painting the entire orcish race a single color. Good job painting the entire halfling race a single color. I guess that means ALL Canadaians are hockey fans, ALL Europeans are soccer/football fans. All halflings are jerks. All orcs are evil. This is all perfectly logical. [/sarcasm]

Just because a few of the halflings we've read about were gigantic racist jackasses, doesn't mean the entire species was. Just because we read about some brutal war waged by the orcs, doesn't mean they were bad. We even see two different perspectives about this war. Each side says something different happened. But it all happened so far back, that the truth is hidden in the mists of time. Both of them have painted there version of events, but in any dispute, there are three sides. There side, your side, and the truth. And kudos, Darkgod, for working yet another Babylon 5 theme into the game, as you're clearing portraying the halflings as Vorlons and the Orcs as Shadows. But I digress. BOTH of the accounts of past events are lies, one that favors the halflings, one that favors the orcs. Neither are actual factual truth. Any race filters what is written through it's perspective, as well as the perspective of the writer of said history. Frankly, until we see a prequel campaign of the events leading up to Athamathon, Garkul, and the spellblaze, we won't be able accurately judge right or wrong on either side of the dispute.

Edit: (again) Also, it's not too late for that utopia. The world clearly hasn't ended yet, and we get to see the orc side in the upcoming campaign, along with the technology they bring to the table. So clearly, the utopia is... YET TO COME. And the setup for it? You can thank the halflings for that.

lol
We are grey, we stand between the candle and the star.

Silly DG, we aren't grey. Grey is Grey

Much of the writing came from Grey, though, sure.

And thbbt Crim. I wasn't talking about any particular halflings, or even the species, really. I was talking about the nation(s) made of them, the imperialist slavemongering jerks Some stuff is still kinda' ambivalent, sure, but them being the primary catalyst to... quite a few of Maj'Eyal's problems is fairly undeniable. T4's equivalent to the British Empire, if you will, just short(er) and possessing a hirsute fetish (poor yeeks ). Possibly including the extent they've managed to foist the blame off on other people, heehee.

... I wonder if that was intentional. Hrm.

[accent]I say, Bilbo old chap, they appear to have uncovered our plot.[/accent]

Incidentally, if halflings are responsible for the worlds woes, does anyone note that the head of Zigur is... a halfling? Proof that Zigurists are evil, by your logic. *beats a dead horse*

If it weren't for the halflings there would have been no Garkul! And certainly no Atamathon. Everyone likes fighting Atamathon, right?

Also offs using anti-magic doesn't mean they hate all mages. They just use it for its power. Similar to ice and fire mages working together.

darkgod wrote:lol
We are grey, we stand between the candle and the star.

We are grey. We stand between the darkness and the light.

Also, I'd like to +1 the notion of evil halflings. So the question is: What the *bleep* was the god who created them even thinking?
I mean, come on. At least in the past they were just outright evil militaristic slaver midgets. What did the guy think, "ooh they will live in tiny villages and be friendly all day"?

The gods made creatures in their own likeness, and lo they were filled with the same greeds and petty conceits of their creators.

Sirrocco wrote:Still - fair enough. I can credit the idea that even for the ig, working with orcs would be more offensive than working with magic users. Being Zig still makes the process of going to work for the Sunwall, and getting along with them so well, a bit surreal.

Also bear in mind that the orcs are working with one of the most powerful magical artifacts in the world. As long as they are shielding the sorcerors, the Sunwall should definitely be the lesser evil for any Zig that's looking at the big picture.

From the perspective of the lore: The Ziguranth are ignorant savages afraid of things they can't understand. (Explains why the cut out a potion-makers tongue, despite alchemy being science, not magic...) Hell, the game even states that they kill ordinary people on 'suspicion' of being a mage.

So as a result of there ignorance, no Zigurist is EVER looking at the big picture. The basic plan for every Zigurist is 'Herp-Derp, Stabby-stab Magey'.

Hell, TROLLS have better intelligence then the average Zigurist.