ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Summoners and oozemancers can summon a full party before going on the worldmap and absolutely destroy random encounters this way, because their cds come back up by the time they're in another fight. It may be a bit hard to code out, but it could be done by checking each sub character if they have a duration and unsummoning them if they do when going to the overworld. Because the talents would be on CD this is a nerf ._.

Also the chance for all your pets to attack with unstoppable nature is suuuuper high, almost 100%. This could maybe even be cut in half. There's enough sustain and spike damage between the other skills that this seems like the worst offender for adding to both of those.

Can't you get a similar effect to the former with Frantic Summoning, on a Summoner, though?

I certainly did exactly that, with my own Summoner. Can't say I ever used that trick. Or really had problems with Adventurers/Orcs.

Seems more like an Oozemancer issue. (Still can't speak on them. I'll unlock them next run. )

So getting essentially 5/5 frenetic summoning for free is fine? The only time I ever needed frenetic summoning was when I was entering a new level.

If your cooldowns tick down on the world map than your summons durations should tick down as well. It should be fixed one way or the other.

I don't know...I found Frantic Summoning good a lot of the time. Basically any time I wanted to fight a boss or rare I triggered it.

It's basically a major up of your damage, and keeping summons out all the time, for Summoner, is impractical. What's not to like?

Granted, this is sorta moot. I was just commenting.

I care about balance issues that involve classes that players can encounter - for example, overpowered oozemancers and solopsists impacted the play of everyone because they were deadly random enemies that anyone could have to deal with.

If players want to adopt silly tactics in single-player games that don't affect other players I'm less concerned. Summoners carrying a legion of buddies onto the world map falls into this category for me.

ohioastro wrote:I care about balance issues that involve classes that players can encounter - for example, overpowered oozemancers and solopsists impacted the play of everyone because they were deadly random enemies that anyone could have to deal with.

If players want to adopt silly tactics in single-player games that don't affect other players I'm less concerned. Summoners carrying a legion of buddies onto the world map falls into this category for me.

Many summoners are still deadly random enemies. On nightmare and insane, summoners are the biggest threat, with corruptors of course

jenx wrote: If players want to adopt silly tactics in single-player games that don't affect other players I'm less concerned. Summoners carrying a legion of buddies onto the world map falls into this category for me.

Many summoners are still deadly random enemies. On nightmare and insane, summoners are the biggest threat, with corruptors of course[/quote]

That applies to lower levels of ID as well. Get deep enough and you'll run at the sight of a summoner.

That's an issue of talent scaling past normal levels though, and summoners are hardly unique in that regard.

Many summoners are still deadly random enemies. On nightmare and insane, summoners are the biggest threat, with corruptors of course

Can't say I agree with that at all, actually...

Corruptors do straight up blight damage that has reducing returns. I'm going to avoid the hell out of someone with Fearscape/Urh'rok, of course, but I always would, and at least Urh'rok "just" gives 50% speed at those levels of talents.

Summoners produce enemies you have to teleport away from or status-letting them get swings can produce some very ridiculous results-but they aren't especially great at stopping status. There were times in Gorbat where I just tanked them, too, as their returns start diminishing past around L10 too-there's not much more powerful you can be once you're **, for some of them(War Dog has a lot more level scaling).

Compare this to "Anyone with Freeze" or "Anyone with Breath attacks", who respectively can deal insane damage(1800 damage, Elandar? Really?) and have insane range/great damage/status that the AI can use from well out of LoS(20+ was pretty common, with Sand Breath generating 20 turn blinds), and it pales badly in comparison. And don't even get me started on Archers, who almost always cap out Physical Power thanks to Bow Mastery, and can legitimately deal Freeze level damage with Steady Shot. Or enemies with Essence of Speed. Like Elandar, who had 253% Global speed. Or Shadowblades, who have insane damage output, Essence of Speed and Shadow Veil-I never ran into one with the full combo, for which I am very, very glad.

I think the only time Corruptors really compared was late, when they started pulling out L10+ Bone Shield. Summoners were always "Go away and it'll be better", like a Necromancer except worse(Did I mention those summon fields of 10~ minions often, at full screen range? With large level advantages, so that by the time you see them, they almost always have Reassemble? That is an instant run.). Oh, and Burning Hex is upgraded to potentially lethal status from debilitating, but I associate that more with Dreads. Otherwise, though...