ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Drain actually increases in range, from a humble 5 to limits unknown (I've got it up to 9 before, but I don't know what stat it's based on). Could the description be modified to clarify this?

I'm pretty sure it's just talent level, but it would be worth a mention.

The range does increase with talent level, and there is no upper limit.

The range is already included in the tooltip for the talent, which shows up from the hotbar, talent menu, and level-up screens. Where else do you think it needs to be mentioned?

Hachem_Muche wrote: The range is already included in the tooltip for the talent, which shows up from the hotbar, talent menu, and level-up screens. Where else do you think it needs to be mentioned?

Yeah, this was basically what I was thinking. I always figured that, if the tooltip shows cooldown decreases or range increases with levelup, that that was enough.

Hachem_Muche wrote:The range does increase with talent level, and there is no upper limit.

The range is already included in the tooltip for the talent, which shows up from the hotbar, talent menu, and level-up screens. Where else do you think it needs to be mentioned?

I think the talent description should say "the range increases with talent level" or equivalent, since the change from 5 to 9 as you level it up is a pretty major one, yet there is no way of knowing about it in advance, nor of knowing exactly what's making it change once you realise.

You can know about it in advance, though, because the levelup screen the range field has a 5[->6] in it that works exactly like the damage in the long description.

phantomglider wrote:You can know about it in advance, though, because the levelup screen the range field has a 5[->6] in it that works exactly like the damage in the long description.

But you have to actually put at least a point in it before seeing this 5[->6].

It happens for many skills, I usually put a point in them at some point just to see what would happen if I were to put some others points. (then I unlearn it if I don't like what I see)

But you have to actually put at least a point in it before seeing this 5[->6].

It happens for many skills, I usually put a point in them at some point just to see what would happen if I were to put some others points. (then I unlearn it if I don't like what I see)

It's a particularly odd complaint on a skill that's practically forced(and gets starting points placed into it) on all the classes that get it, though.

If you can't figure out skills enough to realize "healing that resource that doesn't regenerate naturally=good" and are running with the default skill placement turned off, the situation is probably hopeless for the player anyways.

Having said that, having L1->2 show before placing a point would be nice, rather than just showing the L1 stats, but that's really minor and may be misleading in its own right(people may think they're getting the green values for L2 when they get an L1 spell).

Regardless, I don't see a point in tons of redundant info-if a skill only boosts range at, say, L5, it's one thing, but for constant gains that you can see by putting a point in, that's another matter.

For ToME, understanding the game well requires understanding skill interaction as well as skill properties, and in order to properly and fully detail all skill interactions, you'd have to put a small book into every skill, at which point it drowns out the basic info.

I've heard people complain that they're expected to read where to go in a dialogue box-if people had a similar amount of text attached to every single talent, that's not going to go over well.

The game's already pretty overwhelming as it stands, doubling the text by trying to detail every single level-up bonus multiple times, every single interesting skill interaction, every, well, detail...I know I was kinda overwhelmed by ToME at first, and I've played an awful lot of RPGs and a Roguelike beforehand.

I don't know how much harder it would have been if I was constantly being told about both the base healing and damage values of every skill, and how they are altered by healing modifier/damage modifier, instead of just one figure. Or if the game drowned me by listing that spells were spells and also having is_spell up higher.

So basically, from there, it becomes trying to strike a balance between accurate info that hopefully conveys what a skill does and not being overly words. It's hard, but putting the range and cooldown bonuses in their proper place helps, in my opinion.

SageAcrin wrote:I've heard people complain that they're expected to read where to go in a dialogue box-if people had a similar amount of text attached to every single talent, that's not going to go over well.

Uhhhh... yeah. Ignore those people. A game is supposed to have text, and story. If they want something so simple they never have to read a dialog box, they can go play Call of Duty like the rest of the lowest common denominator. The only real excuse for not liking to READ during the game, is if the language it's in is not your own, and it creates a struggle for you. Hell, reading all the lore actually improves the game experience, and is the reason it's all created, you're really gonna just ignore that? Yeah, well then we don't want to read your opinions for about the same reason. [/rant]

The game's already pretty overwhelming as it stands, doubling the text by trying to detail every single level-up bonus multiple times, every single interesting skill interaction, every, well, detail...I know I was kinda overwhelmed by ToME at first, and I've played an awful lot of RPGs and a Roguelike beforehand.

Odd, I had no real issues, and the detail was part of what drew me in. Granted, that's me coming here from lore-rich games like Morrowind and Sacred 2, but still.

I don't know how much harder it would have been if I was constantly being told about both the base healing and damage values of every skill, and how they are altered by healing modifier/damage modifier, instead of just one figure. Or if the game drowned me by listing that spells were spells and also having is_spell up higher.

So basically, from there, it becomes trying to strike a balance between accurate info that hopefully conveys what a skill does and not being overly words. It's hard, but putting the range and cooldown bonuses in their proper place helps, in my opinion.

I'd say it's perfectly clear, UNLESS it's something that can't be seen immediately. (Like Starfalls radius increase) For the rest, discovering that some of these get better is part of the fun, you aren't MEANT to win right away, and constantly discovering more new things helps to make the game a more fun experience.

Odd, I had no real issues, and the detail was part of what drew me in. Granted, that's me coming here from lore-rich games like Morrowind and Sacred 2, but still.

I specifically mean the skill build system.

I wasn't interested in looking up other people's builds or anything, but instead figuring out what was good by myself, with the information provided by ToME. It's pretty overwhelming if you don't run a bunch of questions by people. On the upside, I feel like I came up with some interesting answers that aren't commonly used. (Such as my heavy armor/Titanic wearing Paradox Mage.)

(I left the in-game chat off as well. Wasn't really interested. Still do leave it mostly off, I just see other people's achievements/deaths because it's neat. Nothing like seeing someone get one of the win achievements to make me smile. Or dying to something silly, that's good too. )

phantomglider wrote:You can know about it in advance, though, because the levelup screen the range field has a 5[->6] in it that works exactly like the damage in the long description.

I must simply have missed this. My bad.