ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Can we make tables in the wiki? That would allow much more creative wiki entries.

Sure, take a look at http://te4.org/wiki/classes for example

I noticed that you upgraded the web/wiki software in the last couple days. I'm not sure what the details of that upgrade are, other than the fonts being larger, and some additional page markup.

The wiki software, at least before the upgrade, is VERY incomplete in its emulation of the mediawiki syntax. Yes, it has tables, but a lot of the things you'd want to do with them simply don't work. See http://te4.org/wiki/editing for examples and explanations. It looks like none of the things under "things that don't work" were fixed in the upgrade, and that's just a tiny, tiny list of what's missing.

Oh, and redirects still blow up with an error message. http://te4.org/wiki/thaloren (http://te4.org/node/1758/edit)

Also: http://te4.org/wiki/shaloren is http://te4.org/node/713/edit

Hum si the list of bugs somewhere?

The uprgade to the site was no the software, only the skin yeah

I think I'll just add a a wysiwyg edior that creates html and be done with it

It's hard to say whether there's a list of bugs when we don't know what software we're using!

Except, because I can force the error message using a redirect, and because the error message happens to contain the string "pearwiki_filter", which looks like it might be the name of the software, then I can google for "pearwiki bugs" and find http://drupal.org/project/issues/pearwiki_filter

Looking through a few of those bug reports is... not encouraging.

it might honestly be helpful to de-integrate the wiki and open it up to everyone to edit. It would require a few people in the community to step up and moderate, but a big part of why Crawl got so big was free availability of information and our wiki in it's current format really isn't going places.

I meant a list of the bugs you noticed ..

And I dont see what taking it out of the site would do, everybody can already edit it ayway

darkgod wrote:I meant a list of the bugs you noticed ..

You can start with the ones on http://te4.org/wiki/editing (I just added #redirect there as well).

Perhaps its because of habit, but I find a wiki almost has to "feel" like a wiki and not part of the site. Where the wiki is hosted is irrelevant but it should have a typical wiki look and feel.

I guess its about ownership to an extent. If the wiki is embedded it feels like its the developers wiki. Like a google project wiki, its not the same as a community wiki.

I think a Wysiwyg editor could help, but I firmly believe it should look and feel as a community driven thing, a very basic empty space with a couple of rules and guidelines, but the multiplayer notepad feeling needs to be there.

I would take away most of the site signs and menus when you click on wiki. Basically no menu on the right, only wiki related stuff on the left, and an Icon that links back to the main page. When I'm on the wiki and I search, I dont want someones character report. I want wiki-like content.

Well, it looks like DarkGod changed the layout of the wiki pages. The left navigation bar disappears entirely, and the right bar shrinks to just "wiki changes", when you're looking at a wiki page. That should help a lot, especially on the pages with wide content like http://te4.org/wiki/classes (which was too wide for me to see the whole table with the new larger fonts!).

While editing or previewing a page, you still see the full left and right navigation bars.

You still cannot search without logging in.

The search still fails to return appropriate results. E.g. searching for "mindstars" returns no results whatsoever even though there is a wiki page with that exact name. Well, most sites have lousy built-in searches anyway... smart users know enough to use Google with a "site:" argument to search forums and wikis.

Oh, also, there is a new "Home >> Wiki Home" mini-navigation bar at the top of each wiki page. So I guess I can stop writing [[wiki|Main page]] at the top of every page now.

Looks much better must say. I'd shrink the top quite a bit too, as it's using a lot of real estate. But, you know people can scroll past it I guess. If it could fold closed with a little arrow or - or something, so you just see TE4 logo (the sword and shield) and the voratun badge and the top menu.

When editing has the side menu visible again, which is kinda odd.

darkgod wrote:Sure, take a look at http://te4.org/wiki/classes for example

But there is still no editor. I tried to edit that page to see what it looked like behind the scenes and it is not very user-friendly (to put it mildly): I've used other wikis that have a front end editor, so you click a Table button, or bold button etc.

For instance, in Joomla websites, you can use this editor, which is great:

http://ckeditor.com/demo

One slightly odd thing is how the pages are named: "zone-derth" instead of "Derth (zone)," for example. Some clear guidelines on the naming standards would be nice.

Actaully the editor is there, not by default. If you click on "Input Format" you can select "filtered html" and you'll get yoru editor

jenx wrote: But there is still no editor. I tried to edit that page to see what it looked like behind the scenes and it is not very user-friendly (to put it mildly):

Code: Select all

{|
! Class !! [[stats-strength|Strength]] !! [[stats-dexterity|Dexterity]] !! [[stats-constitution|Constitution]] !! [[stats-magic|Magic]] !! [[stats-willpower|Willpower]] !! [[stats-cunning|Cunning]] !! [[resources-life|Life]] !! Life per Level
|-
!colspan="9"|Meta-class: Warrior
|-

That's completely normal mediawiki syntax. If you've ever edited wikipedia or any other wikis that use mediawiki syntax, this should be familiar, albeit daunting at first. (The bigger challenge is when you're used to the mediawiki syntax, and you try to use it correctly, and it doesn't work because this "pearwiki_filter" thing is an incomplete emulation.)

I've never used a GUI editor in any wiki (not even the MoinMoin wiki that I run myself), so I have no idea how they work.

Mewtarthio wrote:One slightly odd thing is how the pages are named: "zone-derth" instead of "Derth (zone)," for example. Some clear guidelines on the naming standards would be nice.

This is explained in http://te4.org/wiki/editing .

The wiki started out with three or four different people all writing their own content in different ways, with different page naming standards and layout standards, and with almost no linking between the sections written by the different writers. Even worse, at first it looked like people were trying to make four separate wikis -- one for ToME1, one for ToME2, etc. A lot of the ToME4e pages you've probably been reading had names like "tome4-classes-berserker". I've tried my best to consolidate everything into one consistent structure, but I had to make compromises to do so.

darkgod wrote:Actaully the editor is there, not by default. If you click on "Input Format" you can select "filtered html" and you'll get yoru editor

OK, I'll bite. Let's click that and see what happens....

Ugh. That's not usable. It took out all the line breaks in the content. All the lines got smashed together into something that looks like it came out of Microsoft Outlook.

That might work for writing a new page from scratch (though I haven't tested that theory), but it cannot be used to edit existing pages.