ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Venture deep into the depths of a hidden forest, accept and complete a quest from a mysterious old woman and in return, she tells you the secrets of her power... Suddenly, something pops up on your screen... New class (shapeshifter) unlocked! The shapeshifter has three (?) new wild gift talent trees:
wild gift: Spider Form
1:spider form (turns you into a spider)
2:spider web (while in spider form you can use the 'spider web talent.' at talent level 3 you can use this talent at (?)% efficiency while in human form, at talent level 5 you can use it in any form)
3:spider fangs (every time you attack as a spider you have a (?)% chance to inflict a random poison effect, at talent level 5 this applies to all forms)
4:spiderlings (while in spider form, you may summon (1+0.5x)*talent level smaller spiders to your side. At talent level five, you no longer need to be in spider form to use this ability)

I was thinking the other two trees would be wild gift: bear form and wild gift: sand worm, but it could be anything natural, really. also, it doesnt have to be a spider, it could be a snake or something (1 snake form, 2 nimble movements or something similar, 3 poison fangs and 4 idk), depending on what Darkgod and the community think of it.
maybe also an unlockable one (elemental form/MH drake form) that you have to fulfill certain requirements in game to access (like the poisons tree for rogues).

So what do you guys think?

~edit: I just noticed that Duskheart posted something very similar already in this forum. He suggested using troll form, check out his post: http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=24242

Wyrmic looks like a shapeshifter class to me. But without some of the issues most games tend to smack you with. (you just shapeshifted? I'm taking away your items then...)

Still, different abilities and stuff is good.

A Wyrmic themed around natural animals instead of dragons would be neat. Make the shapeshifting skills mutually exclusive sustains and add a shapeshifting meta tree that generally improves your ability to change shape, like being able to switch sustains without using a turn. Maybe have two going at once as a capstone.

Useless wrote:A Wyrmic themed around natural animals instead of dragons would be neat.

But it wouldn't be a wyrmic anymore..

Well of course. I don't mean actually a Wyrmic. I was just referencing that the other guy above me had said that Wyrmic is already almost a shapeshifter.

Just for the curious: Wyrmics don't actually 'transform' to use any of their abilities.

Some ideas for a wilder/shapeshifter were thrown around in IRC a long time ago (and probably many times sense); one that particularly struck me was restricting shapeshifters to equipment made only of natural materials (and possibly only those not powered by magic, though I feel like that makes Antimagic a no-brainer). Otherwise their shapeshifting powers wouldn't work, or the equipment made from non-natural materials wouldn't provide any bonuses.

Shapeshifters are a pretty flat concept, however. Most of your talents wouldn't be usable at any given time, if you structured the class as described in the OP. I think it would work better as part of a larger class, perhaps something with shamanistic themes. If you wanted to make the class more flexible, you could create talents that work in any form, and change their effects accordingly. An even more advanced concept would be to allow partial shape-shifting, so you could stack multiple effects ('Bear Claws', 'Eagle Wings', 'Cat Eyes' for example).

@bricks I think the shapeshifter would have to have some kind of tree that gives them abilities and whatnot even in their normal shape, perhaps ones that would change depending on what form they are in (as you said). However, I think you should still be able to use all of your equipment, even the arcane. After all, Wyrmics and Summoners can use anything with arcane powers... And perhaps they are capable of adapting whatever equipment they are wearing to fit their new shape whenever they change?

just do it the way grayswandir did for the monk classes stances.

Im pretty sure if you know "slam" from troll form, you arent going to suddenly forget how to do it in a different shape, it just wont be as effective.

Have the forms give passives as well, a la monk stances.

I'd set it up so that every point in a given shapeshifting tree gives a bonus to all talents of that tree while you are in that tree's form (like how every point in Gloom gives you +1 mindpower for all gloom effects). Also, give each form an inverse-spike effect to incentivize switching between them.

For example, you could have a couple of trees like so:

Wolf Aspect
Wolf Form: Sustain. You turn into a wolf, gaining x% movement speed. Taking this form gives you a y% movement speed bonus for (1-2) turns. [Standard movement/step-up disclaimer here]
Wolf Senses: Passive. You have a wolf's uncanny hearing and smell, granting you infravision out to x. At talent level 5, you gain ESP out to (x/3). Every z points in Wolf Aspect talents boost infravision by 1.
etc

Snake Aspect
Snake Form: You turn into a snake; all your melee attacks have a x% chance to poison your enemies for y damage over 10 turns. For the first z turns after taking this form, the poison is an insidious poison that reduces healing by w%.
Darting Movements: You strike quickly and unexpectedly, then dart away before your victim can react, effectively projecting a melee blow for x% damage. Every y points in Snake Aspect talents boost this talent's range by 1.

Mewtarthio wrote:I'd set it up so that every point in a given shapeshifting tree gives a bonus to all talents of that tree while you are in that tree's form (like how every point in Gloom gives you +1 mindpower for all gloom effects). Also, give each form an inverse-spike effect to incentivize switching between them.

For example, you could have a couple of trees like so:

Wolf Aspect
Wolf Form: Sustain. You turn into a wolf, gaining x% movement speed. Taking this form gives you a y% movement speed bonus for (1-2) turns. [Standard movement/step-up disclaimer here]
Wolf Senses: Passive. You have a wolf's uncanny hearing and smell, granting you infravision out to x. At talent level 5, you gain ESP out to (x/3). Every z points in Wolf Aspect talents boost infravision by 1.
etc

Snake Aspect
Snake Form: You turn into a snake; all your melee attacks have a x% chance to poison your enemies for y damage over 10 turns. For the first z turns after taking this form, the poison is an insidious poison that reduces healing by w%.
Darting Movements: You strike quickly and unexpectedly, then dart away before your victim can react, effectively projecting a melee blow for x% damage. Every y points in Snake Aspect talents boost this talent's range by 1.

I like this idea. To add to it I would suggest that Shifters use will as their main stat and that different form trees use different secondary stats ie:
Hawk Aspect
Hawk Form: Sustain. You turn into a hawk, gaining x% movement speed and y% see invisibility and stealth (scales with cunning). For the first z turns after taking this form you gain a w% chance to dodge all incoming attacks.
Piercing Dive: Active. You quickly spiral x squares towards an enemy to viciously peck and claw them for three attacks at y% melee damage. The distance you can dive from scales with cunning.

We could also have a strength based Bear or Troll tree, and a dex based Spider or Snake tree.
For Locked catagories we could have a tree that adds ability's benefiting all forms, and at it's peak allows you to have the benefits from two forms running at the same time.

Also I would suggest that Shapeshifters equipment melds with them when they change and continues to provide its benefits. This just seems far easier then any alternatives. Perhaps they could use mindstars as their main weapons.

Sradac wrote:just do it the way grayswandir did for the monk classes stances.

Im pretty sure if you know "slam" from troll form, you arent going to suddenly forget how to do it in a different shape, it just wont be as effective.

Have the forms give passives as well, a la monk stances.

Wow this is basically my exact idea I was working on to post in this thread. Should have know it was done before.

Still gona post my idea of what a shapeshifting class could look like. Just for fun.

Shapechange Mastery:
Mastery of Essence: Passive. Increases the passive benefits of all shapeshift sustains. Shapeshift effects last a few turns after switching.
Mastery of Form: Passive. Increases all other effects of active changed forms. At level three turning on and off the shapeshifting talents don't use a turn. At level five you can hold two forms at once.
(this tree still needs filling out)

Wolf Form:
Shapeshift:Wolf: Sustain. Increases Dex and Cun. Adds cold resistance and infravision and see stealth/invis. Every attack has a small chance to cause bleeding(or bleeding on crit). Passively increases accuracy. Effectiveness improves with duel wielding.
Vicious Bite: Active. Extra damage and cripples the target. In wolf form also heals you for percent of damage.
Howl: Active. AOE stun. At higher level might daze. Wolf form also has a chance to cause creatures to flee in panic for a few turns.
Wolfpack: Passive. While in wolf form summons wolves to help you. Start with one and get another at levels 3 and 5.

Bear Form:
Shapeshift:Bear: Sustain. Increases Str and Con. Physical resistance and armor. Every attack has a chance to(or on crit)(stun,daze,hit adjacent targets. haven't decided what would fit best.) Passively increases physical power. Effectiveness improves with (two-handed weapons or shield. Maybe both?)
Maul: Active. Hit a target two times and pin/grapple them. Bear form lets you charge with this from a few squares away.
Bearhug: Passive. When you hit with Maul you do damage every turn as well as suffocation until they die or escape your grab. In bear form gain small amount of resist all while Mauling.
Furious Strength: Passive. While in bear form increases damage and adds chance to do an additional attack on a random adjacent enemy. At level five can wield a two handed weapon with one hand.

Spider Form:
Shapeshift:Spider: Sustain. Increases Dex and Will. Pinning and slowing resistance and Movement speed buff. Chance to inflict slowing poison. Passively improves spell saves. Effectiveness improves with bows.
Spider Leap: Active. Jumps several spaces. In spider form leaves a web trap in the tile you leap from that pins or slows anything that walks on it.
Shoot Web Active. Pins target. At level five becomes a cone. Spider form also has a chance to slow or silence targets.
Mystic Weaver: Passive. While in spider form attacks drain any resources from those you hit, reducing your equilibrium and replenishing any resources you have.

Snake Form:
Shapeshift:Snake: Sustain. Increases Con and Cun. Poison and Disarm resistance and attack speed buff. Chance to inflict insidious poison on hit. Passively improves defense. Effectiveness improves with ???
Swift Strike: Active. Does damage and increases defense for several turns(or evasion). In snake form also inflicts confusion.
Venom Spit: Active. Ranged attack that poisons and can blind. Ranged increased in snake form and poison becomes insidious.
Serpents Deceit: Passive. While in snake form grants a large amount of stealth. Automatically goes into stealth when no enemies are in sight and has a chance to go stealth even in plain sight. Also crits on first attack that breaks stealth.

Also a few trees that aren't directly shapeshifting into things but covers some animals that don't have a form because I felt too many would muddle the class.

Lesser Creatures or Symbiosis
Swarm Host: Passive. When ever hit has a chance to spawn friendly insects to help you. Amount and the type of insects to spawn get better as skill levels.
Vermin King: Passive. Increases disease resistance and luck. On crit summons several vermin to help you.
One with Plants: Active. Removes two status effects and regens health. Passively buffs healing modifier.
Friend of Birds: Active. Get picked up and randomly placed somewhere else. Basically a non-arcane teleport.

Intelligent Races:
Trollflesh: Active. Instantly heals and also increase damage and resist all for a few turns.
Minotaur:
something:
Essence of the People: Gain one level of playable races racial tree passive skills. At level one gain yeek and halfling passives. At level two gain the passives of both elven subtypes. At level three gain Higher passives. At level four gain dwarfs. At level five gain a category point.

Secret Unlockable skill tree
(Orc Form)

Ignore the weapon types mention if the class wold work better as a mindstar class.

Obviously this isn't exactly what the class would work like. The skills here are poorly though out and frankly a mess. It needs someone with a much better understanding of mechanics and better at writing fluff to tear it apart and make something worthwhile out of it. Also the People skill is a joke and a bad idea.