ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Skipping Subject Z to rush the Arena Quest as a yeek is counter intuitive in my opinion.

So instead I suggest that we simply disallow the arena quest for yeeks and transfer the two generic point reward to saving the yeek wayist.

Or give/improve the yeek player two yeek racial talents. Unity, Wayist, and Quickened would all be likely (and appropriate) candidates.

I vote Unity, if we're not just making it Generic(I suggest we do that, though.).

I would skip Wayist on pet class builds, and Quickened is the lower priority for me on every build I've had. That confusion resist is too great to pass up.

edge2054 wrote:Skipping Subject Z to rush the Arena Quest as a yeek is counter intuitive in my opinion.

So instead I suggest that we simply disallow the arena quest for yeeks and transfer the two generic point reward to saving the yeek wayist.

... what about skipping subject Z just to be skipping subject Z? Not sure if it's been toned back recently, but I've had so many yeeks instapopped to that bugger over the betas I recall out as a matter of habit. If I couldn't recall, I'd be teleporting over the wall if at all possible.

Other than that, sorta' support the idea. Only concern is that it'd make getting those generic points (a serious boon for a lot of classes, early game) a lot more iffy for yeeks

Subject Z balance is another issue Frumple (perhaps the Wayist should know the summoning talent if the player is a yeek to even the odds a bit). I understand what you're saying but most new players aren't going to think to use a Rod of Recall to skip that fight. It's a very gamey thing.

Well, "new" players don't play yeeks, and if you play a yeek, then you're guaranteed to know about Subject Z.

Giving the Wayist the "Wayist" talent (the summoning talent) if the player is a yeek would be a fine way to address balance.

Well by new I meant more like super spoiled. I would have never thought of using the RoR to skip Subject Z as a yeek and had to hear it from someone else.

Yeah... when I first tried to RoR out, I wasn't expecting it to work. Reasonable response would have been to put you back on the island, but... nope! Still say it's a bug, but if it means not having to deal with Z and then slog through a zone that can potentially drop master archers on your mid-low teens under equipped fuzzy arse, I'm not quite complaining.

As for wayist addition for the wayist, sure. Some extra toughness would be a really bloody good idea, too. Unless Z was nerfed somewhere in there, I still have flashbacks to Z killing the wayist on literally the same turn I opened the damn door to that joint. Never mind trying to stop it from happening on something like a mindslayer or cursed. Maybe if you get a movement infusion or rush boots, but that's not guaranteed, at all.

I really dont see this as an issue. Of all my yeeks i have played i have cleared both starter dungeons, and killed Z, and that leaves me right at level 10. Giving plenty of time to make it to the arena. RoR out of the dungeon after taking out Z, getting arena, then continuing on my quests.

As a note, I didn't really find it a problem either.

So *shrug*. If people like the idea, fine...but I think that, as long as Subject Z is problematically strong, people will skip him regardless of his rewards, and if he's not problematically strong, then forbidding or allowing the arena is...at worst, as big of a problem as the fact that you can draw Assassin Lord's fight walking out of Iron Throne because you hit L5 in their starter dungeon. Whatever that says.

I think I'm the one who started this topic on chat...anyway, there are alternatives - keep in mind that disallowing doing the arena as a yeek and linking the generics to the Wayist surviving WOULD be a straight nerf(you can't fail the arena quest!).

So, here's two other ideas:

1)Yeeks can't do the arena quest, but there is a similarly-hard quest in yeekland that gives two generics - or, alternatively, class points if we want to differentiate yeeks even more without straight nerfing. It might NOT have to be in yeekland, actually - it might involve doing something bad to halflings in Maj'Eyal, but still, should be exclusive to yeeks.
2)Remove the level limit on the arena quest. Maybe it shouldn't be doable when the storm is there, but after that is done, the rogue should be back and willing to give you the quest.

Zonk wrote: 2)Remove the level limit on the arena quest. Maybe it shouldn't be doable when the storm is there, but after that is done, the rogue should be back and willing to give you the quest.

I'd love this. It's really annoying to forget about the arena on any character and end up 2 points short.

Yeah, removing the level limit does seem like the best bet.

Maybe just making the shady Cornac's place an actual arena building in Derth? That way he can't get killed there.

It'd make it seem a bit less... shady to the newbies, too. Going with the Shady Cornac is an Obvious Correct Choice to people who know what it means, but until you've done it once, he really is giving off a fair number of skeezy vibes.

For that matter, if it was an arena, you could even throw in a second "once you get back from the East" questlet, like for the dungeon bosses.

I like having a 2nd arena quest after comming back from the east. Talk to the shady rogue..

"Wow! Looks like you've toughened up some! I think you might be ready for a chance at a REAL fight in our arena!"

Then you are put in, and then you go through a series of fights with difficulty on par to the zigur arena quest.

On completion this time around maybe you get come CLASS points?? 2 class points might be alot, maybe just 1 class point and 3 stat points??