ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

In the current game:
By lore: undead are banned from using equilibrium-based talents, infusions, and the anti-magic class. By lore, they are too separated from nature to join with nature.
By logic: undead are banned from using infusions, and anti-magic characters are banned from using runes. If a character could somehow take both, they'd give up ALL the rune/infusion options. Giving up one isn't too bad, as it frees up more slots for the other. Giving up both would cripple any character in the game.

Suggestion:
By lore: the Zigurath discover a form of fungus that can consume the magic that brings life to undead, grow throughout the undead's body, and power a new life by nature. They may still be banned from the 'fungus' path, as it could interfere with the fungus in them now. (mechanically, fungus mostly boosts regeneration infusions anyway)
Mechanics: undead can take the anti-magic path, though it may mean a harder test for them. They gain the ability to use equilibrium, though infusions are still banned. The sacrifice of both infusions and runes would require a GREAT bonus if this idea is taken. Because the gold spent for runes/infusions is cheap compared to the points spent on talents, the bonus should not come as a talent tree, but as an automatic bonus (think like a necromancer using lichform). Since it isn't something that can be further invested in, and because it would probably be taken early, I suggest the bonuses scale with character level, so that the fungus 'grows' as the character does.

New Life Fungus (passive): The fungus which has taken root in your body, becoming the new source of life for you, grants you exceptional regeneration capabilities (+lvl/2 HP regen, +lvl/4 stam regen, +lvl/8 psi/equilib regen), as well as substantial resistance to damage (+lvl/4 all damage resist, or maybe individual for most damage types) and much faster movement (+lvl/2 global speed).

Those are some huge bonuses, I know, but they come at the cost of ALL healing, regeneration, movement, wild, hero, etc infusions, AND ALL shielding, phase door, teleportation, invisibility, and damage runes. There are a few, pretty rare, items that can grant some of these effects (healing, shielding, teleportation, damage are the only ones I know), but they generally don't scale, or only scale a little, and are pretty rare. Also, since those bonuses would be pretty small at lower levels, it may be advisable to make it start at a fixed amount and then add the level-scaling quantity (i.e. +10+lvl/2 HP regen).

This would, of course, require a significant expansion in lore, so it would be a HUGE step to take, but I think it would unlock some interesting possibilities.

Ah, I had an idea like this once, I was trying to develop it into an addon but failed miserably. I've misplaced my list of ideas but it more or less was this: The "Scion" (which can mean both an inheritor and a cutting of a plant) was a human/elf/dwarf/whatever that, after dying, was infiltrated with roots and shoots, bringing them back to life. When the "Creeping Roots" sustain was active, standing still in any location caused the effect to build and spread in a radius. Other talents would use this effect for things like short-range teleport or pinning enemies down. However, you'd have to disable Creeping Roots to pass as friendly, similar to wearing the Cloak. Scions would be allowed to take infusions, wilder classes, and anti-magic.

Regarding your idea, I think restricting both infusions and runes would be too drastic. Allowing infusions would let you focus on some more interesting talents, instead of just healing. Also, the Defiler classes should probably be forbidden, for obvious reasons.

I was thinking of this idea as a way to give any undead bonuses sufficiently high to compensate for the incredible loss. Also, aren't the defiler classes already banned from the anti-magic path? I'm thinking only the undead check would be removed, not the energy-type check?

Well, yes, but that doesn't mean that those races that start with anti-magic will automatically disallow magic classes. I was thinking more along the lines of a Wilder-styled undead race, with antimagic as an option. I should have made that clearer.

This one is weird. In particular, it's weird because of category points. Losing all your infusion slots is harsh. Losing all of your infusion slots after you've bought one or two with cat points is that much harsher.

That having been said... undead are by nature arcane abominations. Why would the Zig even *want* to do anything other than wipe them out with extreme prejudice? If you think about it, necromancers are obviously on the "kill on sight" list, and actual undead are even worse than that.

That's one of the problems with this idea. We might be able to imagine that the Zigurath may discover that some undead minions may become sentient on their own (like any undead player is), and then choose to offer those undead who don't embrace magic a chance to abandon the magic that supports their life entirely. Still, that's a long, long assumptive thought process.

Planetus wrote:We might be able to imagine that the Zigurath may discover that some undead minions may become sentient on their own (like any undead player is), and then choose to offer those undead who don't embrace magic a chance to abandon the magic that supports their life entirely.

No problem with this - however the traditional tool of choice in Zigur circles for such activities is a heavy mace. My releasing the arcane bonds on the flesh the soul is freed and happy. Any objection from the undead is clearing a possessive message from the vile dweomers that infest its flesh, and a sure sign that the soul must be suffering and should be released sooner!