ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

“Ex hihil nihilo fit”

Lore:[
...How did it end there ? How come that arcane and nature forces, still clinching in their desperate struggle, is still miserable before incoming danger ? Why there are no protection, no salvation behind those people, whom only purpose is wiping out any possible quiescency ?
[...]
Because. No one was ready enough to recognize nothingness as actual threat. Let them state their brilliant logic one more time: it can not exist. And yes, there are truly no room for Blank Segment in Eyal or any other world. Which was not enough to halt ever incoming pervasion, of course...
[...]
And so they came. Mere fingers of nihility, powered by most devastating vis ever imaginable: nothing. Adversaries of reality itself. Entropy Knights.
];Lore

Proem:[
...You already imagined some unimaginable horrors ? Vain, if so: just one more doctrine to achieve desired might. Not much scarier that some chronomancy or psionicism in terms of field practice. One of reasons is that nihil gfts actually threatening for their wielder no less then for her victims. They are simply destructive by nature, and only indomitable will may stop executed processes for disintegrating user as well. Yet, backlashes are simply inavoidable there.
[...]
Right, willpower leveling is mandatory for every Entropy Knight who want to live further level one. What more ? Mere trifle: complete inability to regain HP by natural (and unnatural) means. While being just a right price for someone, who can tear giant dragon into molecular haze by single wish, it still force members of mentioned class into pumping constitution score.
];Proem

Samples:[
...Before we would go further, some numbers and technical info would be helpful, I assume...
---Stats---
Meta-class: Not Have
Class: Entropy Knight
Race restrictions: None
Strength mod: +/-0
Dexterity mod: +/-0
Constitution mod: +10
Magic mod: +/-0
Willpower mod: +3
Cunning mod: +/-0
Life mod: 200% (sic !)
Life per level: +10
Healing mod: *0
Life regen: *0
(Rem: eat that HP amounts, you puny berserkerz !)

---Talent, or some of them at least---
+Available: Unarmed Training (0.9 mastery)

*Nihil\Prunation (class)*
->Liquidate (active)
Range: 1 (melee)
Cooldown: 9->5
Requirements: at least one bare hand (no gloves).
Effect: you grasp target by most convenient place, forcing matter around clench to be degraded into fluid stage, reducing victim’s HP by 5->15% of maximum (scaling with size). May not be applied to non-solid substances, i.e. ooze or incorporeal undeads. Generated liquids counts as slime for organic enemies and acid for inorganic, dealing corresponding damage (in amount of lost HP)...
Contraindications: ...to your hand as well. Willpower reduce amount of reflexive twitching, decreasing some of additional nature damage to engulfed limb.

->Volatilization (active)
Range: 1->2 (on level 5, no LoS required)
Cooldown: 20
Requirements: must follow successful ‘Liquidate’ or used on oozeling.
Effect: moleculaes of victim’s external fluids loose their connexion completely, fuzzing apart as gaseous cloud in range of 2 cells from source. Resulting vapor is cumulatively venomous for inhalation until being scattered by natural after means next 1->5 turns...
Contraindications: ...and didn’t I mentioned that you always would be touched by it ? Some willpower to inhibit breathing reduce risk of poisoning considerably.

->Luminous showdown (active)
Range: 0
Cooldown: 40->30
Requirements: must be used inside volume of heavy gas until level 5.
Effect: separated from magnetal fields, particles become easy prey ubiquitous embrace of Blank, breaking upto rapidly dimming blinks. Irreversibly destroys the atmosphir around, converting it’s mass into light damage to everyone in radius of 3 cells from user...
Contraindications: ...including, needless to say, herself. Dealing with distanced chunks helps, yet it requires some forbearing to hold self from unrestrained deconstruction of hatred matter.

->Interference (sustained)
Cooldown: 30->25
Effect: destabilize bodily matters of user, allowing them to penetrate (with 250->150% of original motion’s speed) and move through solid substances. All of your possessions falls through on floor. Critical chances in melee goes up by 300%, while victim’s armour rating is no more relevant. Traversing through walls is not a problem (aside of breathing) anymore, however...
Contraindications: ...any received blow of damage may eventually break your concentration, shattering already volatile frame into apace dispersing cloud. [Willpower * talent level] roll negates, yet instant death is on stake here.
(Rem: kids, never try it at home)

*Nihil\Erasure (generic)*
->Terminatione (active)
Cooldown: 10->5
Range: 5->10 (no LoS required)
Effect: you closuring Blank’s fingers back to themselves, annulating it together with any of nihil-powered effects on target square (including self-caused). While mirk void of nothing would unlikely hold any grudge for misconduct of such sort...
Contraindications: ...any single qualm in that process may cause violent backlash in form unplanned departing everything in range of ten cells from target one. Willpower helps as always.
(Rem: this talent interacts quite amusing with “interference”. Guess how ?)

->Abitus (active)
Cooldown: 20
Range: 1 (melee)
Requirements: at least one free hand.
Effect: introduces touched victim to perpetual miracles of Blank Segment by passing her to one of lurking Fingers. Target throws 5->1 [100 - your Willpower%] rolls of successful clinging to existence before facing final departure. Grand problem here is...
Contraindications: ...that whole fact of tactile contact giving you some chances (60%->40%) to be dragged out of reality as well. Same saving formula – everything is fair. And square.

->Invitare irritum (active)
Cooldown: 45->35
Range: 1
Effect: epitomizes Arm of Blank in guise of vacuum monstrousity. Being hound of singe intention, it would lurk around (seep through walls) seeking for target to depart out. Also, once brought into reality, those beings stop for nothing until abidance of their eternal task...
Contraindications: and departing with user, just to mention, is one of easiest way to accomplish it. Willpower can only save (70%->50%) from flinching and summoning it on own cell with unambiguous result, yet later only distance can save.
(Rem: may not work on rares and further)

->Fuga (active)
Cooldown: 100
Range: 0
Requirements: only usable in Blank Segment.
Effect: clenches all of your aspiration into one simple and most actual impulse for current situation: getting out ([Willpower]% of success). While clenching, time still would flow as normal (20) turns, so things around could what they like most...
Contraindications: ...and some of them (precisely, those in 6->2 cells around you) would re-appear in reality together with you. Sadly, there are no known way to avoid those vexatious nuance.

*Nihil\Outism (class)*
Shared requirement: only usable outside of Blank Segment.

->Semblant Haven (active)
Range: 0
Cooldown: 30
Effect: by coercive disbracing grasp of reality, you render own presence undetectable for 1->5 potential observers. Being far beyond prosy concealment, those methodic does not actually hide anything: it rather inhibit whole possibility of recognizing user as something more significant than empty space. While virtually no external force can break mentioned effect...
Contraindications: ...any failed Willpower check would still result in preterm abortion with subsequent and ineluctable beaconing of everything in 50 cells to user for whole cooldown’s duration.
(Rem: side effect could actually be used for some boredom dispellation as well)

->Denial Installation (sustained)
Cooldown: 50
Effect: eventually, rejecting own existence would define more and more passages for craved intervention. Once rapport with Blank Segment is attained (75%->25% chance to fail), worldly affairs (be it mere punch or wyrmic sneeze) can do no more harm for you...
Contraindications: ...syne there may not be definite “you” under such circumstances: all other sustained talents become forsaken and no actions more complex then locomotion could be taken. Also, willpower check should be made each turn to prevent “Denial Breach” condition with same restrictions, yet no aegis at all for 20->10 turns.
(Rem: does not prevent encasement in ice block or forced teleportation)

->Obliterate (active)
Range: 3
Cooldown: 10->5
Effect: once self-devastation is no more enough, other beings could share their portion of distilled oblivion as well: by banning irrefutable fact of target’s existence, you temporally shelter self from disfavored victim...
Contraindications: ...as well as ability to detect her presence be any means. Protection ends abruptly on first insurmountable reminder (i.e. attempt to occupy same cell), while collateral screening – only with successful effort of will.

->Forget Me Now (passive)
Effect: sooner or later, all cogitation ends there. Once you objectively reduced to nothing, no more ignorance could help you to stand back. Instead, whole world my fuse into monolithic spiral of contradictions, effectively freeing your averted mens from dilapidated vessel...
Contraindications: ...by reforming it as 2->6 false Arms of Blank. Once (it’s not “if”, only “when”) those self-sacrificial mission ends, you still need to go. Some will is needed to negate occasional schism in new formed squad, just to note.
];Samples

Clarifications:[
?. Void <> Blank Segment. Leave poor archages dance in their astral-powered mash, it has nothing to do with actual nothingness.
?. Yes, Arm of Blank could be cancelled out with ‘Terminatione’: they still need separate Finger to uphold connection. Life in Eyal is cruel even for vacuum monstrosities, you know.
?. Formally, people of Ziguranth found no reason to stalk Entropy Knights. Well, actually nobody in more-or-less sane mind would stalk those zealots of destructions. They rather eventually destroy themselves, it seems...
?. ...And now something vastly different: (perma)death in reality is for wimps. Blank Segment would just engulf away own agents right after last second of existence, re-implementing them with maximal possible HP and mostly sucked of egos ("powered by: Nothing") equipment. Now, and only now real fun begins: there are all of previosly departed beings... Oh, and death is finally permanent (Eidolon may help with returning, though) ! Happy slaying onto way back, which only appers after complete wipeout.
];Clarifications

...More to come...

"Interference" is simply bizarre. A sustained talent with the twin downsides that you lose all of your gear, and that any hit can instakill you? It's an interesting idea, but there's no way to balance that that makes sense for a character interested in long-term survival.

"Nihil:Erasure" is... poorly described. Also, if it *is* saying what it sounds like it is, then it's basically a single target "end foe and/or remove wall" attack. That's... basically impossible to balance as well, unless you give them some defense, and een then it's nontrivial.

I think I am not so much a fan of the fluff here. I'll admit that the idea of someone who is pumped out to the nines on HP, but must spend HP to run their skills is somewhat interesting, but I think it might be better to tone down the "I am the end of all things" factor.

Also, it you *were* one of these monstrosities... what possible quarrel would you have with the main villains? Why would you follow the plot at all?

Although this is an interesting NPC class, I don't think that it's really appropriate for PCs. To quote someone else on this forum (although I can't remember who), if a talent has a 50% chance of killing the user and a 50% chance of killing the target, then it is useless for PCs and impossibly deadly in the hands of NPCs. I also agree with the above: why would you try to stop the villains of the plot, if your goals coincide?

This could make for an interesting faction or class though. I just don't think it'll work the way its laid out right now, unless it can be balanced or reworked.

Here for a moment. Glad for you critic, people. Now, let me explain myself:

Interference" is simply bizarre. A sustained talent with the twin downsides that you lose all of your gear, and that any hit can instakill you? It's an interesting idea, but there's no way to balance that that makes sense for a character interested in long-term survival.

Actually, while I recently got idea how to abuse “Invitare irritum” by using it from wall, whole “Interference” was meant to work in synergy with more-or-less dedicated for diversions tree (WIP). I’m bit of fan for wallman-style prey hunting, just to note.

"Nihil:Erasure" is... poorly described. Also, if it *is* saying what it sounds like it is, then it's basically a single target "end foe and/or remove wall" attack. That's... basically impossible to balance as well, unless you give them some defense, and een then it's nontrivial.

Wall removal there (while it’s planned too, of course) would be a little OP, yet, well... It is instant foe removal with some chances to face them all together once (not “if”, “when”) luck wasn’t to nice to you.

I think it might be better to tone down the "I am the end of all things" factor.

Generic Entropy Kinght: “I are the end of all things !”
Dark God (from above): “Yes-yes ! Oh, hey, look: it’s one of THAT mobrooms you sure missed so much since ADOM, just thrice as large !”
Generic Entropy Kinght: “…What I did to deserve that ?”
------------
To sum a bit: problem with “Erasure” is that it is very strong for killing lone foes, but generally useless (and, actually, dangerous) in opposing crowd. Now, “Prunation” going to compensate things a little, but instead of probability theory it is based on imminent self-harm. So, with current talent trees EK is going to be very nervous and rhabdophobic “end of all things”. Not too sure if I should keep things that way, so little help would be appreciated. Any ideas ?

Also, it you *were* one of these monstrosities... what possible quarrel would you have with the main villains? Why would you follow the plot at all?

Oh, that one is easy: why not ? While you have not much more reasons to spread virtue then some ghul necromancer, whole idea of omnidestruction in (more-or-less) civilized environment means that you should try annihilating riffraff first. Agress civils - you are gone for good, yet tear apart some Master and they would praise new hero and offer more wares to help with further murdering. Logical, right ?

if a talent has a 50% chance of killing the user and a 50% chance of killing the target, then it is useless for PCs and impossibly deadly in the hands of NPCs

Thought about same matter as well. No yet sure, however, if numbers should be corrected or some less trivial techniques (like protecting yourself from accidental doom by accepting delayed one) required here. Maybe both. Any ideas on balancing, btw ?

News: updated OP with adiitional talent tree (Nihil\Outism). Nietzsche should somehow approve represented concepts, let me assume...
Still waiting for external suggestions, though.

Guevara - I hate to say it, but the entire idea appears to be flawed. A setup where every power has significant drawbacks is almost impossible to balance. A character driven by a desire to end all of existence really doesn't fit meaningfully into the plot. A character who gets gobs of Hp, but makes up for it by having powers that cost HP... will lead to builds that simply don't use the class powers much, and instead spend their points on antimagic and equivalents.

Oh... except apparently he has no way to heal at all? After all, you've said that he can't regain life through any of the normal means, and you haven't given him any abnormal means to work with.

I want to make it clear, I'm not trying to discourage you from posting. You've shown the ability to come up with ideas that are at least wacky and a little off the edge, and that can be good some times. You've also (more importantly) show the ability to actually put in some effort to pulling an idea together and giving it at least a bit of beef to work with. That's good. I'd just like to encourage you to try doing it with some other idea - preferably one that isn't inimical to all life.

Don’t forget, please: I already reqested ideas and got none. Still, talking about concept as whole:
0) I wanted some class that represent inevitable regression and ruination. Entropy zealots looked just fine: earthly agent of unstoppable force, which feel no difference between worm mass, Sher’Tul and own “conductor”. Equivalency as absolution and self-sacrifice as style of life.
1) Another point: I wanted class without any resource pool either. Existing talents implement their drawbacks through disruption of corresponding bars: mana for magic, stamina for slashing, paradox for warping reality, equilibrium for warping nature, eth. Nihil, on other hand, is powered by (and being) nothing, yet it’s simply omnidestructive.
10) Talking about being good and evil: necromancy can grant rebirth to perished being, while warrior’s sword – only ruin existing. Taking things to such extend, only rival of entropy is stasis: a lot less natural and never-ending existence. Deciding which are worse is up to you.
11) I’m still deciding about healing, yet major rule is simple: action of EK should never add anything to world she lives in. Self-reconstruction with bereaved matter seems fine, yet I’m still unsure how that system should work to be different from wampirism.
110) Once again: how you would've do it, considering that chronomancy (as fundamental force manipulatorion) is already in ?

Guevara-chan wrote:Don’t forget, please: I already reqested ideas and got none. Still, talking about concept as whole:
0) I wanted some class that represent inevitable regression and ruination. Entropy zealots looked just fine: earthly agent of unstoppable force, which feel no difference between worm mass, Sher’Tul and own “conductor”. Equivalency as absolution and self-sacrifice as style of life.
1) Another point: I wanted class without any resource pool either. Existing talents implement their drawbacks through disruption of corresponding bars: mana for magic, stamina for slashing, paradox for warping reality, equilibrium for warping nature, eth. Nihil, on other hand, is powered by (and being) nothing, yet it’s simply omnidestructive.
10) Talking about being good and evil: necromancy can grant rebirth to perished being, while warrior’s sword – only ruin existing. Taking things to such extend, only rival of entropy is stasis: a lot less natural and never-ending existence. Deciding which are worse is up to you.
11) I’m still deciding about healing, yet major rule is simple: action of EK should never add anything to world she lives in. Self-reconstruction with bereaved matter seems fine, yet I’m still unsure how that system should work to be different from wampirism.
110) Once again: how you would've do it, considering that chronomancy (as fundamental force manipulatorion) is already in ?

0) That seems a lot like Reavers, a little like Corrupters and Paradox Mages. All three of those classes have somewhat vague motivations, which could be taken as suicidal or genocidal, and degradation/corruption are basically their core themes. Afflicted also have some carry-over.
1) The problem is that it simply isn't that fun. In balancing the class you are left with two options: either cripple the player (reduce health or inflict status effects), or give the abilities insanely long cooldowns. The first option might make for a very tactical game, but without proper balancing I'd say the best build is one that pumps huge amounts of Constitution and just whacks everything with a sword. Long cooldowns are a really bad way to balance skills, since they must in turn be extremely powerful, and you can just rest between most fights in ToME.
10) Entropy is already a concept used by Paradox Mages, and Paradox itself could be thought of as a "chaotic" resource. If you are OK with a full rewrite of the class, I'd look into making it a Chonomancer sub-class. There are a number of threads in the Ideas and Development forums discussing new Chronomancer abilities and classes, and I know edge, who created the Temporal Warden, Paradox Mage, and Brawler classes has mentioned his intent for a "temporal knight" class.
11) Healing penalties are really hard for players to accept. Take a look at Cursed for an idea of how painful it can be to have limited healing. This can make for a compelling and unique experience, to be sure, but the extremity that you propose is probably just agonizing. It's already frustrating to play a class like Corrupters and Reavers who can't recover their primary resource outside of combat; I can't imagine doing the same with health.

I've come up with my own ideas for classes and haphazardly tried to implement some. What I think you should consider is how the class fits into both the world of ToME and the gameplay - I shouldn't need a strategy guide to play a new class. If you have experience with LUA or are willing to learn, I suggest you try to develop such a class on your own. The add-ons forum has a lot of examples of how to add new classes to the game. I'm going to mirror what Sirrocco said - your ideas have a lot of flavor and spirit behind them, they just seem excessively ornate. Since there is no limit to your creativity, the best advice I can give is to develop the class slowly, adding core abilities and tweaking them as needed. Find out what is fun, and fill in the gaps.

0) That seems a lot like Reavers, a little like Corrupters and Paradox Mages. All three of those classes have somewhat vague motivations, which could be taken as suicidal or genocidal, and degradation/corruption are basically their core themes. Afflicted also have some carry-over.

None of them are suicidal, though, yet I agree about vague motivation. Just a little more nihilistic and less self-caring personality (probably from desperation) -> fresh addition to entropy bringing hermits.

1) The problem is that it simply isn't that fun. In balancing the class you are left with two options: either cripple the player (reduce health or inflict status effects), or give the abilities insanely long cooldowns. The first option might make for a very tactical game, but without proper balancing I'd say the best build is one that pumps huge amounts of Constitution and just whacks everything with a sword. Long cooldowns are a really bad way to balance skills, since they must in turn be extremely powerful, and you can just rest between most fights in ToME.

Was always about first way to handle (potentially) unlimited power: every action bring consequences, and while user can do nothing to prevent it – some evasion is still up to her. It’s somewhat like being canonical undead: nothing could get better and most satisfying way to get along remaining snatches = wrecking as much havoc, as possible.

10) Entropy is already a concept used by Paradox Mages, and Paradox itself could be thought of as a "chaotic" resource. If you are OK with a full rewrite of the class, I'd look into making it a Chonomancer sub-class. There are a number of threads in the Ideas and Development forums discussing new Chronomancer abilities and classes, and I know edge, who created the Temporal Warden, Paradox Mage, and Brawler classes has mentioned his intent for a "temporal knight" class.

Well, as things is not set in stone (yet) – I would glad to cooperate there. Would be nice to keep Entropy Knights as outcast branch, like magi already done with necromancers.

11) Healing penalties are really hard for players to accept. Take a look at Cursed for an idea of how painful it can be to have limited healing. This can make for a compelling and unique experience, to be sure, but the extremity that you propose is probably just agonizing. It's already frustrating to play a class like Corrupters and Reavers who can't recover their primary resource outside of combat; I can't imagine doing the same with health.

If you ever played Tactics Ogre (especially PSP remake, I recommend it a lot), there was really outstanding concept of handling undeads: being unable to recover health by any convenient means (and even damaged by divine healing), instead of dying they just collapse into “stilled” state and wait for 3 turns before reviving with full HP bar if there was none volunteers to exorcize those heap of dead flesh first. Somewhat similar concept was planned there: you are free to banish enemies into nothing and after leaving reality as dead man you still has chance to return lively as newborn – just after slaughtering everyone you thrown out of reality before. Fair enough ?

If you have experience with LUA or are willing to learn, I suggest you try to develop such a class on your own.

No actual experience with LUA (aside of of sourcecode examinations) in particular, yet I am a game developer after all. Some experiments could be made for sure, once I get more free time. Also, since you already mentioned, there are some chances to combine efforts - right ?

Guevara-chan wrote:Also, since you already mentioned, there are some chances to combine efforts - right ?

Ha, well, that's not my call. Edge probably already has a good idea of what he wants to do with the class. But there are certainly lots of resources and a ton of ideas floating around. The IRC channel is a great place to bounce ideas around and get a little LUA help.

Yeah, I want to do an Entropy Knight or a Void Disciple (or maybe both) as Chronomancy classes at some point.

I think there's some interesting ideas here conceptually. From a game balance perspective though I read the first post in this thread and honestly haven't gotten back to it since because it had some serious mechanical issues (namely it didn't look like it was going to be a fun class to play because of the proposed mechanics).

But don't let me discourage you and please go on It sounds like you're taking the feedback in this thread quite well and as I said I thought conceptually there was some interesting ideas. And we can work on the mechanics later

As to using Paradox, Temporal Wardens and Paradox Mages both take a fairly conservative approach to Paradox management. My ideas for a third (or third and fourth) Paradox using class would be someone who isn't conservative. We could have talents scale more directly off Paradox and do things like inflicting anomalies on enemies. In short, I want the next Chronomancy class to be a lot 'darker' and/or 'reckless'.

A different way to build a class that might fit in... we already have Reavers and Corrupters... We actually might be able to fit in a class of Corrupted Zealots. I admit my understanding of their powersource is a bit limited - I've never played a reaver, and I haven't even unlocked corrupters, but they've basically sold themselves to an outside, corruptive force that wants to consume the world (and remake the world in its own image - so not utter destruction, but not *that* far off). Reavers buy into it because they're the classic "some men just want to watch the world burn" types. They like to kill, and the Corruption gives them the power to do that. Corrupters are mages who fell to the Corruption because it's so intriguing and appealing as a magic source. They thrill to its use. Zealots, then, would serve the Corruption for its own sake - they are fanatically devoted to it, and willing to sacrifice their lives if that is what is needed to better serve it. It's not *quite* "I want to end all things, even me", but it is suicidal devotion to a force that is fundamentally inimical to life as we know it. Not *too* bad, right?

You want con to be a class stat, and that makes sense to me - we'll make it magic and con, to fit in with the corruption=magic theme. Will would probably also be appropriate. You want a self-sacrificial character. That's certainly doable. We won't give him any normal ways of recovering vim. Instead, we'll say that he has a passive, that converts a certain amount of HP to vim every round. When his vim is full, the drain stops. That way, when he casts a spell, he isn't casting from HP directly, but the bill will come due. This is a character who will constantly be working to stitch his body back together so that he has more blood, flesh, and health to offer to his terrible masters. The HP loss per turn should be low enough that it's not *quickly* lethal, but high enough that it's not likely that natural regen would cover it. Higher levels of skill should increase damage rate (though they might also increase vim-gain efficiency)

Another interesting idea, that might work well with this - powers that have moderately long cooldowns, where the power itself is a little on the weak side, but having it on cooldown gives you some benefit, as the power of the Corruption washes through its wielder and empowers him. That way, you're encouraged to spend Vim even when you don't really need to. The Zealot should be encouraged to make offerings of himself even when *not* truly necessary.

Of course, giving them an established power source means that you also have a couple of classes to steal trees from - certainly generics, and possible a class tree or two as well. As a magic/con class, you're going to be using a staff most likely, but let's make this a bit more of a close-combat character. In particular, lets make the main schtick be auras and touch spells. Give him two or three trees each fo which is an aura that's warping the world around him in some bizarre way. First skill is a sustain, mutually exclusive with the other aura sustains, and each follow-on skill cranks up the effect of the aura in some way. You might have an aura of pestilence, for example, that would have chances of inflicting diseases of various sorts on everyone in the aura other than the caster. You might have an aura of flames, which would deal damage, debuff enemies, and eventually randomly spawn faeros - things like that. Each aura would have a sustain cost of 0, but many of the aura effects would cost vim when triggered, or possibly have an upkeep cost in vim.

Might have a nice Warped Form tree or two as well - representing ways in which the Zealot has warped his own body.

You might even have one unlockable tree with powers that wouldn't necessarily drain life from the caster, but would deal blight damage as they channeled through him - and a skill in another tree that would make it possible to achieve 100% blight resistance, if you wanted to work at it a bit.

It's not the Entropy Knight that you envisioned, but I think it could be made to fit into the game a fair bit better, and It's got a lot of the themes, I think

No, while I beg your pardon (and enjoy whole concept, actually), vim-based origination is completely out of question: while generally considered “oh, so bad !”, it still despairingly ties every related class to objective reality and corresponding laws. No amount of stolen life force could establish binding to absolute emptiness. What’s even more: no force in general can – only significant lack of it. Now, if you need some more convincing reference:
[*][/b] Imagine standard (yes, glass one) scientific flask. You can “power” it up by filling with matters – nitroglycerine or triethylborane, f.e. As other way to do things you, may actually pump any air out, forming vacuum inside. Now those vessel is unequivocally empty (to know extend, of course), yet just try tossing it: results may be quite amusing as well. Why so ? Because lack of matter qualify as significant matter during inter-objective interactions.
--------------
What’s even more: I want Entropy Knights to be capable of entering Zigur and wrecking everyone out by own pith. As so, any form of magic involvement is extremely ineligible.

don't let me discourage you and please go on

Accepted: there are 2 more talent trees in productions, and while one of them is mostly about further exploiting destabilized (by “Interference”) molecular state, other would address less notorious aspect of entropy - data degeneration. Also, since there are still no better fitting proposals, side-effects would be designed in already established vein. Later, of course, it all could be totally reworked.

We could have talents scale more directly off Paradox and do things like inflicting anomalies on enemies. In short, I want the next Chronomancy class to be a lot 'darker' and/or 'reckless'.

Something make believe, that such people would also pay less consideration about learning ways to manipulate reality, relying instead on their fugacious whims. Kind of like D&D 3.5 Warlocks and other intuitive “casters”. Fair enough ?

P.S. Still would be interested to see your notions being consolidated into third corrupted class, Sirrocco. Any help needed ?

Guevara-chan wrote: [*][/b] Imagine standard (yes, glass one) scientific flask. You can “power” it up by filling with matters – nitroglycerine or triethylborane, f.e. As other way to do things you, may actually pump any air out, forming vacuum inside. Now those vessel is unequivocally empty (to know extend, of course), yet just try tossing it: results may be quite amusing as well. Why so ? Because lack of matter qualify as significant matter during inter-objective interactions.

The bottle implodes because the outside air exerts pressure on it. Space is mostly empty and things like meteors ( or any object with adjusted pressure ) floating around in it have 0 interaction with it because there is nothing to interact with.

So Vim or any power source used could be interpreted as causing the emptyness ( sucking the air out of the bottle ) or enhancing the effects of the emptyness ( exerting increased pressure on the emptyness and filling it up rapidly, causing various effects ).

The bottle implodes because the outside air exerts pressure on it. Space is mostly empty and things like meteors ( or any object with adjusted pressure ) floating around in it have 0 interaction with it because there is nothing to interact with.

Yes, and there you right in one more, yet uncovered by me aspect: vacuum also helps entities to retain their respective impulses with ineluctable corrections by second law of thermodynamics. That alone could be considered as opportune allegory for departed enemies, waiting EK’s arrival [?]just like they are[/?] in Blank Segment. Stasis inside entropy apotheosis ? Right, duality just like everywhere.

So Vim or any power source used could be interpreted as causing the emptyness ( sucking the air out of the bottle ) or enhancing the effects of the emptyness ( exerting increased pressure on the emptyness and filling it up rapidly, causing various effects ).

They could, sure (especially since there atmosphere-manipulating magic), yet is it actual synergy with nothingness ? Nah, just like mud golem would never become as…affecting …as earth elemental. So, that “force”, which establish inextricable connexion between Entropy Knights and Blank Segment is actually indistinguishable for lifeflow itself. Desolation, despair, forfeit of hope - just everything that strip soul and mind out of lively aspirations. Later, as I mentioned, such people become living conductors for one of essential omniverse' matters – lack of any matter. Emptiness.

P.S. Hate creeps in and boils out. Void remain.