ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

The Last Hope Graveyard is lethal enough if you know what you're doing. If, as is all too likely, you are new to the game, just finished your first couple of dungeons, and decided to go on the quest this alchemist guy gives you, you are probably going to end up sandwiched between a pile of randomly generated deathbosses and a summoning nuker, all of which you are painfully underleveled for, and then you're just going to die.

I suggest that if you try to open the door to Celia's room without opening all the coffins, the game gives you a message about how this is really dangerous and likely to kill you.

"You feel an oppressive dread emanating not just from the door ahead but also from the hallway behind you. Perhaps you should cleanse this taint from the rest of the mausoleum first. Are you still sure you want to open this door right now?"

I have to say the Last Hope graveyard is like some sort of sadistically evil deathtrap. Interesting, and even 'Fun', but sometimes cruel.

I fear that place more than any other area in the game.

+1 here. It's too easy for an unspoiled player to go in and get slaughtered since it has a scripted quest and everything. Even for spoiled players it's bad, since they'll see it gives an unlock (I lost three characters in just that way). I definitely think a warning is necessary for it, and also some easier way to get the unlock since it's just not any fun currently.

I can understand the warning message being a bit more verbose for this dungeon, but as for making it easier? I disagree, if my characters can make it far enough to this dungeon, then they have a very good chance of finishing it.

I think the main issues are 1) the danger of random bosses and 2) it's not clear without spoilers what strategies exist. I imagine random bosses are going to be under constant revision and hopefully will become more reasonable (its one of the main reasons I don't play the basic game much any more). The second could be adjusted in a number of ways; one idea would be a particle effect that leads from the main door to each of the coffins, to indicate that they are connected.

Here's an idea for a warning message that could be displayed when you enter the crypt area:


As you tread softly down the stairs a large stone slab slides into place behind you, blocking all retreat. The air is still and stuffy, and in this tight space you feel as if in a coffin, buried alive.

Adding to your unease is a rising feeling of dread, overwhelming fear in fact. A hall of doors lies ahead, and behind each you sense a power of great malevolence and unholy horror. At the end of the corridor you see a faint light beneath a large black door, and you have a vague sense that the other doors are enslaved to this one - obedient, subservient, and waiting...

You hear the sound of a woman sobbing, and every now and then it turns into a fit of pained moans and screams. They echo round the dark chamber and through the darkest parts of your mind, reminding you of every black deed and vile sin you have ever committed. Guilt, horror and terror flood through your thoughts, each competing for stronger control of your psyche. Your only clear thought is of escape, by whatever means you can find.

The fact is you can gain this quest on lvl 1. So you really have no clue as to how dangerous it is. I was lvl 1 when i gained it, my level 10 char should be ok?

Perhaps one should only be allowed to descend the stairs after killing the Master - before then you feel too scared.

I have to agree; the Graveyard is by far the most difficult area on the West, so some sort of warning for new players would be welcome. In fact, I like both suggestions by Grey, especially the warning message which is think is very well written (btw, the lore in this game is fantastic).

On the other hand, I don't think that the difficulty of this area should be toned down; in fact, I would welcome the addition of more optional, 'elite' challenge dungeons for those players that enjoy testing themselves-I know I got a huge buzz from clearing the Room of Death and unlocking the Necromancer.

necronomist wrote: On the other hand, I don't think that the difficulty of this area should be toned down; in fact, I would welcome the addition of more optional, 'elite' challenge dungeons for those players that enjoy testing themselves-I know I got a huge buzz from clearing the Room of Death and unlocking the Necromancer.

I like optional hard quests/dungeons too, but I don't like the idea of the only legitimate unlock method for a class being so difficult. If there was an alternate easier unlock method over time like I've seen suggested, OK. But making it so that only people who are very good, lucky, or cheese the level on it can get the unlock is bad in my opinion.

Grey, your suggestions are great and I hope they make it into the game. I'm also a big fan of the lore you and the other guys put into the game. It's one of the main reasons I'm playing ToME and not other roguelikes.

Personally, as someone who lost a good 7 characters to the graveyard before I unlocked necromancer, I think the whole thing should be left as it is. It's a very good lesson to new players as to how this game works. Expect to die and you'll never be disappointed. Learning by dying is more or less how ToME is presently designed, and while I think that at times this design fails in profound ways (farportals) it ultimately works and distinguishes this game from other roguelikes.

Really? I thought learning-through-death was one unifying aspect of all roguelikes.