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New talent category Tactical combat help needed
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:31 pm
by marvalis
Hello guys. I am still working on the
sand stalker class.
I recently began a new iteration on the class changing quite a few things about it.
One of the talent trees will be 'tactical combat'. The first two talents give the player 5 talents each:
http://pastebin.com/hfhhfjFn
* Mobile combat
Code: Select all
return ([[You learn how to move more effectively while fighting. Each level you will learn a new talent:
Level 1: Move ; You move 2 or 3 squares without taking a turn.
Level 2: Charge ; You move up to 5 squares and attack the target.
Level 3: Retreat ; You attack the target and jump back 4 squares.
Level 4: Go around ; You attack the target and go around it.
Level 5: Quickness ; You move 10% faster (passive). Swapping weapons is instant.]])
* Disabling strikes
Code: Select all
return ([[Learn how to use disabling strikes. Each level you will learn a new attack:
Level 1: Blinding strike.
Level 2: Silencing strike.
Level 3: Disarming strike.
Level 4: Dazing strike.
Level 5: Confusing strike).]])
Now I need 2 more 'tactical combat' talents. I had a few options, but I don't like them.
I was thinking about perhaps adding a skill that deflects archery projectiles and damages nearby creatures when you do so (with a certain chance). This seems a bit to hard to code for me. Part of the archery code is in the engine ActorProject.lua, and other parts are in archery.lua. For example, the skill would give you 50% chance to block incoming projectiles and deflect the damage to a random square next to the player. If there is a target in that square, it will get hit by the arrow from the archer (source remains the archer).
I also thought about adding a 'throw weapon' skill as a tactical option, but then decided I did not like this.
Having already 10 talents with just the first two talent of this category I was thinking that perhaps I should add two more passive skills.
The idea of this category is to have many tactical options at any given time (do I move away, reposition, or do I attack and disable him?). They should not be raw damage talents.
Also, I am still trying to figure out how an 'out-of-combat vs in-combat' mechanic could be coded. For example, a certain skill will only cool-down out of combat.
Suppose I want these talents to share the same cooldown, what talent should I look at to see how this is done? Thanks.
Re: New talent category Tactical combat help needed
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:23 pm
by martinuzz
marvalis wrote:Also, I am still trying to figure out how an 'out-of-combat vs in-combat' mechanic could be coded. For example, a certain skill will only cool-down out of combat.
Suppose I want these talents to share the same cooldown, what talent should I look at to see how this is done? Thanks.
I don't think there is a cooldown in the game at this point that is directly influenced by enemy presence.
Perhaps you can emulate this, by combining the autocast-on-proximity mechanic of
Gloom
with the put-cooldown-on-hold effect of the Mindslayer's
Conduit talent.
But hey - I'm no coder
EDIT:
make a skill that is a passive aura, with range = light / infra / ESP range of the player, whichever is greater.
When a monster enters the aura's range, it casts an status effect on the NPC and you (for mechanics, think Gloom and
Displacement Shield. Make the Gloom mechanic always hit, instead of chance-based)
The status has no effect on the NPC, but for you, it puts talents x,y,z etc on hold. Look at Conduit for this.
The effect ends when either the monster dies, or it leaves your vision / infra range.
You could also limit this all to LOS instead of vision/infra/ESP range. Look at
Feed for that mechanic
Re: New talent category Tactical combat help needed
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:10 pm
by lukep
marvalis wrote:I was thinking about perhaps adding a skill that deflects archery projectiles and damages nearby creatures when you do so (with a certain chance). This seems a bit to hard to code for me. Part of the archery code is in the engine ActorProject.lua, and other parts are in archery.lua. For example, the skill would give you 50% chance to block incoming projectiles and deflect the damage to a random square next to the player. If there is a target in that square, it will get hit by the arrow from the archer (source remains the archer).
Look at the "deflect projectiles" mindslayer skill, while it isn't perfectly what you are describing, it is very close.
Re: New talent category Tactical combat help needed
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:28 pm
by marvalis
Thank you both lukep and martinuzz, that both was almost exactly what I needed.
Re: New talent category Tactical combat help needed
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:59 pm
by Phoenix1
Scattershot of ideas for other talents. Not sure how easily they can be coded.
A talent to force an enemy to attack itself/a nearby ally.
A talent to get foes to stop targeting you, and maybe prevent them from targeting you for a short time.
A talent that, lets you do a short range targeted teleport on up to, say, talent level targets, letting you reshape the battlefield as you need.
A talent that gives you a substantial global speed boost immediately (like, a few hundred percent, enough to basically take several actions immediately), but leaves you dazed/slowed/paralyzed/whatever for a few turns when it ends.
Another teach-a-new-talent-per-level talent that lets you create various obstructions (one blocks LoS, one is a wall, one causes damage, one prevents movement, one teleports anyone who steps on it, maybe?)
Re: New talent category Tactical combat help needed
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:26 pm
by marvalis
Interestingly, the sand stalker will have an ability that creates a sand wall. This ability will be one of 5 talents gotten from one talent:
sand/utility:
Shielding sand
* rank 1: A sand shield (minor damage absorption, slow shield regen)
* rank 2: cast a sand wall
* rank 3: you can cast a second sand wall (2 active)
* rank 4: you can cast a third sand wall (3 can be active)
* rank 5: Sand coffin: Renders you invulnerable for a few turns while regenerating
Sand coffin is a talent I am still not happy about. I think having 3 sand walls up would be cool (use it to block sight, or to block archery projectiles etc.)
Tactical combat has the additional restriction of not being magical in any way. They are all physical skills (you run really fast, you stab someone's eyes, etc.). Teleportation is too much magical to be a part of it.
Perhaps a speed boost of some sort could be interesting, if I can work out an interesting mechanic for it.
Re: New talent category Tactical combat help needed
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:38 am
by bricks
Marvalis, I'm unfamiliar with the class in general, but the best utility for wall-creating talents would be the abilities to see and move (without taking damage and at reduced breath loss?) through the walls. Of course, if you want the class to have a chance of ever dying, you'd need to severely penalize the player for using the walls...
I'm noticing that you are cramming a lot of talents into single talents, and since it's your class that is totally fine, but I think things like Mobile Combat and Shielding Sand could be entire trees. Disabling Strikes is just crazy good, I don't think any class should get that many crowd control options.
I love the flavor of the class, by the way. Glancing over the original discussion, I both agree that Equilibrium fits it well (Psi would too, to a lesser degree), and that Equilibrium is a totally lame mechanic. Tough call.
Re: New talent category Tactical combat help needed
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:09 pm
by jotwebe
marvalis wrote:Sand coffin: Renders you invulnerable for a few turns while regenerating
Maybe instead it give you really good stealth for a couple of turns? Maybe through in some extra damage resistance (a lot physical, light, darkness, no arcane, temporal, mind, a bit for everything else). Call it Cloak of Sand? It would give pretty good protection effectively, and maybe better describe what a localized sandstorm could do to help you...
Re: New talent category Tactical combat help needed
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:30 am
by marvalis
bricks wrote:Marvalis, I'm unfamiliar with the class in general, but the best utility for wall-creating talents would be the abilities to see and move (without taking damage and at reduced breath loss?) through the walls.
You nailed it:
Code: Select all
newTalent{
name = "Improved sensing",
type = {"sand/utility", 4},
mode = "passive",
return ([[You learn how to move more effectively while fighting. Each level you will learn a new talent:
Level 1: You can sense creatures around you in radius 2.
Level 2: You can sense terrain around you in radius 2.
Level 3: Improves the radius of your sensing to 3.
Level 4: Improves the radius to 4.
Level 5: You gain the Sense Hidden talent, allowing you to track hidden targets for 8 turns. You also gain some passive detection.]])
end,
Range 4 see trough walls, mainly to allow the player to see while using:
Code: Select all
newTalent{
name = "Cloud of sand",
info = function(self, t)
return ([[You cover the area around you in a thick cloud of sand, blocking all light in a radius of %d for %d turns.]]):format(self:getTalentLevelRaw(t), math.floor(5 + self:getTalentLevel(t)/2 + self:getTalentLevel(t)/5 * self:getWil(10)))
end,
}
He will not be able to move trough walls, but he gets a 'dig' spell:
Code: Select all
newTalent{
name = "Earth to dust",
type = {"sand/control",3},
info = function(self, t)
local getRange = self:getTalentRange(t)
local getRadius = self:getTalentRadius(t)
return ([[You turn stone into dust in a radius of %d within %d squares.]]):
format(getRadius, getRange)
end,
}
bricks wrote:Disabling Strikes is just crazy good, I don't think any class should get that many crowd control options.
I think putting them all on the same cool-down could help balance the talents. The duration of these is also only ~3 turns. So in the end, I hope it will be balanced and still provide a tactical option for every fight.
Makes me wonder what talent I need to look at for shared cool-downs.
Re: New talent category Tactical combat help needed
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:31 am
by lukep
marvalis wrote:Makes me wonder what talent I need to look at for shared cool-downs.
Placing this in each talent would be very close to what I imagine you need (approximately copied from my work on the magebow class):
Code: Select all
self.talents_cd[self.T_BLINDING_STRIKE] = 7
self.talents_cd[self.T_BLINDING_STRIKE] = 7
self.talents_cd[self.T_SILENCING_STRIKE] = 7
self.talents_cd[self.T_DISARMING_STRIKE] = 7
self.talents_cd[self.T_DAZING_STRIKE] = 7
self.talents_cd[self.T_CONFUSING_STRIKE] = 7
This would not, however allow a stun to disable all of them at once, or allow a cooldown resetting skill to renew all of them.
Another thing to check out would be to use "on_pre_use" to determine if any of the other ones are cooling down. This would probably work better, though it may be unintuitive to the player why a talent is unavailable.
Re: New talent category Tactical combat help needed
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:31 pm
by edge2054
I always liked this class concept. I hope to see it finished and brought back to life someday
