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A counter to dispel

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:57 am
by bricks
Corrupted Negation and Disperse Magic are tremendously good against sustains. This makes them a good counter to many playstyles, which is reasonable; however, there is no counter to dispel effects. I propose that dispel effects (or just offensive dispels like Corrupted Negation and (targeted) Disperse Magic) be checked against spell save for each effect that the spell tries to remove.

While this would be a tremendous nerf to Dreadmasters and other dispelling beasties, it would also make staves of Ruination and gloves of Dispersion less preposterously good. Since the addition of those items, Urkis has become a joke, and the main danger of Wrathroot is totally eliminated. It would also make room for more NPC dispel skills.

Re: A counter to dispel

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:04 am
by lukep
A effect immunity (like stun , confusion, or poison is) would work as well, though it may be needless complexity.

Re: A counter to dispel

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:44 am
by edge2054
Spell saving throws for this type of effect make sense and gives players another reason to pump saves (which is good imo, though power is money may need a nerf the more valuable saves become, though it might need a nerf anyway).

Re: A counter to dispel

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:04 am
by tiger_eye
edge2054 wrote:(which is good imo, though power is money may need a nerf the more valuable saves become, though it might need a nerf anyway)
I agree 100% that Power is Money needs nerfed. It is by far the best talent that provides saves, and it boosts all saves. I like it thematically, though, because it makes dwarves not buy things from stores until late in the game :-P .

I don't think the talent scales appropriately with gold. Early on, gold acquired is pretty low, but by the end of the game, it's common for even non-dwarf characters to have over 10,000 gold. So, I propose a new scaling for the talent:

Code: Select all

+1 save every [50 + 20*getTalentLevelRaw(t)] gold, up to [10*getTalentLevelRaw(t)]

raw talent | gold/save | max save | gold needed for max saves
    1      |    70     |    10    |    700
    2      |    90     |    20    |   1800
    3      |   110     |    30    |   3300
    4      |   130     |    40    |   5200
    5      |   150     |    50    |   7500

Re: A counter to dispel

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:25 am
by tiger_eye
Okay, after going over Power is Money with edge2054, we still thought the +50 bonus to all saves was too good. So, we came up with the table below.

Recall that greed begets greed, so the greater the bonus, the greater the gold required:

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+1 save every [75 + 25*getTalentLevelRaw(t)] gold, up to [5*getTalentLevelRaw(t)]

raw talent | gold/save | max save | gold needed
    1      |   100     |     5    |    500
    2      |   125     |    10    |   1250
    3      |   150     |    15    |   2250
    4      |   175     |    20    |   3500
    5      |   200     |    25    |   5000

Re: A counter to dispel

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:28 am
by edge2054
hehe.. we're derailing the thread tiger_eye.

Just want to chime in and say I'm in favor of both of these changes :)

Re: A counter to dispel

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:16 pm
by CaptainTrips
Staves of ruination could use a longer cooldown as well.