ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

The idea is that there should be a type of monster you should not kill. You should probably not even try to kill them.

For example, adom had these greater molochs. Very slow heavy armored hard hitting monsters. Normally (without armor penetrating arrows of demon slaying) you would not try to attack these.
The question is: Is there such a think in tome?
Are there monsters you should just run away from?

Maybe we need some,
or should you be able to kill everything?

What do you guys think?

That brings me to the "moving wall" idea.
A monster that does not hit you, but moves towards you and has~10k hp with high resists. The only way to get out is to dig/teleport away when he gets you stuck. Obviously, there should never be more than two on a level (3 can get you stuck in a corner for ever).
Now imagine a level filled with moving walls with corridors on a grid pattern (like the roads in new york city). They 'patrol' like the sand worm tunnelers and they are neutral. If you attack one they become hostile and move towards you . As long as they are neutral you can move between them while they move around. The goal is to get on the other side of the map.

marvalis wrote:A monster that does not hit you, but moves towards you and has~10k hp with high resists. The only way to get out is to dig/teleport away when he gets you stuck. Obviously, there should never be more than two on a level (3 can get you stuck in a corner for ever).

This is incorrect... 2 can get you trapped in a corner @=You, X = moving wall, everything else is a wall.

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|@X
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Yes, but you can dig out so you are not forced to kill them. Even one can trap you like that:
But if you have to fight trough 10.000 hp with 90% resist or you can dig the wall, it is an easy choice to make right?

I dislike this idea. It just doesn't seem like it'd be fun, after the first few times -- it'd get repetitive and annoying. It'd also tend to make the game more 'spoiler-dependent', which is a major problem ADOM has IMHO -- that is, you'd have to know about these monsters in order to know to avoid them, so you'd be more dependent on reading spoilers.

In general, it just doesn't seem to fit into the more playable, user-friendly nature of ToME.

marvalis wrote:The idea is that there should be a type of monster you should not kill. You should probably not even try to kill them.

For example, adom had these greater molochs. Very slow heavy armored hard hitting monsters. Normally (without armor penetrating arrows of demon slaying) you would not try to attack these.
The question is: Is there such a think in tome?
Are there monsters you should just run away from?

I always kill greater molochs in ADOM - great for xp :P

There are some enemies best avoided with certain chars in ToME. Eternal bone giants for instance - on a physical-based character your best option is to just keep the hell away from them.

As for the movable wall thing... well, as you mention they are very similar to the sandworm tunnellers (which can't really be beaten), so the concept is not completely alien to ToME4. It does need to be thought through properly though, to be interesting without simply becoming frustrating.

Ugh, the moving walls sound like the living forest in ADoM. So awful. A level that shifted around would be cool, though.

The major difference between a "moving wall" type enemy and a sandworm tunneler is - you have no reason to kill the tunnelers, unless you want to be stuck pretty much forever, without targeted teleport.

marvalis wrote:The idea is that there should be a type of monster you should not kill. You should probably not even try to kill them.

Radiant horrors come to mind.