ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

What if instead of rings he enchanted an amulet so the bonuses are cut in half?

Granted then we'd need empty amulets (do those exist?) If they don't exist maybe he could just supply one to make life easy.

Why do you wish to nerf it?

Well as Frumple has told me (I never found the book myself) one of these rings can hit 28% resist all (I know there's some luck involved) or +14 to all stats which blows every other artifact out of the water.

To top it off... well you can wear two of them!! (56% resist all... good game!!)

So if it was an amulet instead of rings well it'd be half as bad.

There's some luck in the absolute upper reaches (I.e. the 28% or +14), but there's not in 18% resist all or +9 to all stats. Those can be guaranteed for anyone who manages to open up limmir for moon ring business. If you can find the tome and get limmir moving, having 46+% resist all, just from those rings and maxed con, is basically assured. That's bloody close to ridiculous -- it's a wild infusion from capping every single damage resist in the game.

The question is what, if anything, to do. Being fair, the quest is hard to get (the tome may, in fact, never generate.) and hard to complete if you don't already know what to do. The question is if items which almost (but not quite... not quite.) trivialize non-insane difficulty end-game content is a viable reward.

The amulet idea would be solid. 38% resist all from decent con and a 28% amulet isn't quite so incredible -- still incredible, yes, but... Just 28 or so would be more likely. A +9 amulet would be one point from matching the absolute upper tier of stat boosting jeweler... a +14, four points beyond. Amulets in general are also fairly lacking in power, so a high-end one, via limmir, might be something nice.

The other things to do would be upper tier limitation (4th tier or below gems, only, with current restrictions on duplication, while requiring a plain item one tier over the gem limit, i.e. voratun for 4th tier, stralite for third, etc.), tier duplication limitation (No pearl + diamond + random fifth tier.), or creation limitation (only X number of tries -- this would be highly annoying ).

The moon rings could also be made into set artifacts. Perhaps even a full jewelry set of end-game level power, to compensate for the loss of control. Set bonuses ala moon and star could be involved, as well.

But something could probably stand to be done. Managing to make a correct set of limmir rings (+5 all, 18% resist is my favorite) for general use and another set for overkit (+14 to all) purposes is basically cackling maniacly and going, "Good game, T4."

All that said... getting limmir's rings is incredible when you get them. It's a serious treat, because you get to go buck wild and basically wreck the joint, for any class -- and some classes/talents get some serious improvements due to having those rings. More on that when I finish winning with this AM Mindslayer, heh.

So whilst you can create a mega-artifact which is by far and away the best in the game (by the way it's +15)... you have to get the book, then do the quest, and survive it!

That's hard and you yourself have pointed out that you have never had the book.

I just wonder whether its worth doing? Don't get me wrong - if you all think it should be nerfed go for it!

Limmy's rings are bloody hard to get, they should be awesome. Just because some players can go Full Munchkin with them doesn't mean they have to be nerfed.

I like the idea of Limmir making amulets. Then the reward for completing the quest is just as good as it used to be, you just can't go and *double* the benefits of said reward. The way the quest works currently, however hard the quest is, doesn't come close to fitting in with the rest of ToME's content.

Freddybear wrote:Limmy's rings are bloody hard to get, they should be awesome. Just because some players can go Full Munchkin with them doesn't mean they have to be nerfed.

It does make things harder from a class balance perspective especially with the current stat of sustains. Getting +28 to all stats for long enough to pump all your sustains is pretty game breaking no matter how hard the quest.

edge2054 wrote: It does make things harder from a class balance perspective especially with the current stat of sustains. Getting +28 to all stats for long enough to pump all your sustains is pretty game breaking no matter how hard the quest.

I just spent the last hour or so trying to glean some real world statistics from the character vault. All I can say is that a bit more than half of the winners in the vault had one or more of limmy's rings equipped. There are only 47 winners compared to 8400 or so characters which have died trying. How many of those dead had a limmy ring, I can't say. Of the 25 dead level 50's, only two had a ring of the moon equipped.

This is indeed a great idea. Currently, there's absolutely no use for those plain amulets, and there are already a ton of good ego/artifact rings. My last winner had a crappy amulet and two Moon rings, I could have used a Moon amulet instead...

I consider myself a decent player, and I've never managed to get the rings, despite my best efforts. Hell, I've only seen the tome once.

Leave 'em in.

Also, considering that there are plenty of good rings out there, I fail to see how so drastically improving amulets is much of a nerf.

Are you suggesting that Limmy only improves amulets?

Or are you suggesting that Limmy can improve amulets as well?

So we have the following options:

1) Leave as is - Limmy can do rings only, no nerf
2) Leave as is - Limmy can do rings only, nerf the power
3) Limmy does amulets - amulets and rings at full power (no nerf)
4) Limmy does amulets - amulets at full power and rings nerfed
5) Limmy does amulets - amulets nerfed and rings at full power
6) Limmy does amulets - amulets and rings at lesser power (nerf all)

Hmmmm....

Edge's suggestion is for Limmr to do amulets and amulets only -- no more rings. This is to prevent the (potentially ridiculous) bonuses from a max power Limmir ring (I.e. 28% resist all or +14 to all stats) or near max (18% resist all, +9 to all stats) from stacking into something that can drastically reduce the game's difficulty.

As much as I'd personally enjoy retaining access to what I occasionally refer to as the Rings of Game Breaking, I do think they're a bit much. Swapping to amulets to prevent stacking would still allow some incredible pieces of equipment that can seriously give a late-game character a boost, without taking it quite so far.

Oops my bad...

Forgot about the 2 obvious options and their pernutations

A) Rings only (nerf/no nerf)
B) Amulets only (nerf/no nerf)

1) Leave as is - Limmy can do rings only, no nerf
2) Leave as is - Limmy can do rings only, nerf the power
3) Limmy does amulets - amulets and rings at full power (no nerf)
4) Limmy does amulets - amulets at full power and rings nerfed
5) Limmy does amulets - amulets nerfed and rings at full power
6) Limmy does amulets - amulets and rings at lesser power (nerf all)

madmonk wrote:Oops my bad...

Forgot about the 2 obvious options and their pernutations

A) Rings only (nerf/no nerf)
B) Amulets only (nerf/no nerf)

1) Leave as is - Limmy can do rings only, no nerf
2) Leave as is - Limmy can do rings only, nerf the power
3) Limmy does amulets - amulets and rings at full power (no nerf)
4) Limmy does amulets - amulets at full power and rings nerfed
5) Limmy does amulets - amulets nerfed and rings at full power
6) Limmy does amulets - amulets and rings at lesser power (nerf all)

I'd like it if Limmy could still make regular tier 4 & 5 rings ala Angolwen's jeweler, but can create moon amulets as the quest reward.