ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

I've experimented with the game pretty extensively, and really like the escort quests. There is, however, a rather substantial random element - both in what you get from specific escorts and in how lucky you are in when they are offered. The first is a more extensive topic, but I'd like to advocate for some specific changes in the initial random assignment of when they occur.

Right now you can easily get severe "clumping": namely, many levels with no escorts, followed by a few bunched into one dungeon. Since the dungeons vary considerably in how friendly they are to escorts, and the boss levels are quite deadly to them, you end up adding an early random ingredient which I'd view as undesirable. In other words, through no fault of your own you could just "roll" a series of doomed escorts in one case, crippling a character; in the other example you get a huge advantage from a lucky chain of them.

To even this aspect out I'd propose the following:

There are 5 dungeons where escorts appear - 2 starter (race-specific) and 3 general (old forest, mountains, tower.) Exclude boss levels from escorts, since this is almost always fatal to them, and divide up the dungeons into high/low level chunks. This gives 10 potential "slots" where escort quests can appear. Ensure that no more than one appears in any given such segment. In practice this will mean no more than 2 per dungeon, and probably at least one per (assuming 8 escort quests.)

This avoids the "escort crushed by Bill the Troll" syndrome. It is pretty neutral in terms of balance - removing both the "easy" and the "hard" distributions of escort assignments - while retaining a random factor. It also encourages more exploration and less trying and discarding characters early while looking for a good random shake of the dice on when the escorts show up. A good character will get quests through the tougher areas (like the tower), while everyone can probably get at least a few done.

I'd also like at least a safe antechamber when you get an escort quest - at least give you some chance to protect the poor fellow.

Escort quests are not necessary, and losing them all is not in any way crippling. Anyone who quits because of failed escorts is simply a fool! Some rewards are nice, but none are in any way necessary for any class.

Escort quests on boss levels can be intensely difficult... but dear god are they satisfying when you manage to pull it off. Even rescuing a loremaster can make you feel on top of the world if you had to slay Rantha in the middle of it.

Honestly, there's a hell of a lot more randomness in whether or not you get a good weapon, and that's a far bigger deal for almost every class. Escorts are a bit of side fun - an added challenge to some levels with a decent reward, that shouldn't be taken so seriously. Besides which, with the recent changes I've found them to be almost too survivable.

Perhaps if all the rewards were nerfed then people wouldn't get so obsessed with them and would enjoy them for the fun they're meant to be... ;)

Rather than simply shooting one another's ideas down, which we certainly *could* do, I'd prefer to focus on their individual merits. In this particular case, I'd rather see the escorts spread around than have them be guaranteed failures or far too easy. Are the current "features" of their distribution intended or accidental?

I don't mean to shoot down your ideas - I just disagree with them :)

I'd personally prefer if there was instead a certain percentage chance of getting an escort on every level, instead of a set number spread at the start of the game. That way in some games you might find none, in others many, but on average you'd get the same number. It's kinda depressing at the moment when you check your quest list and realise you've already had your allotted number of 6 escorts. Of course some people would hate such a random system...

I also like the idea that there should be a certain clear area around the stairs, but I actually think that should be a general thing for all dungeons. Some situations are almost impossible in difficulty when you first enter a level, and it seems unfair to encourage level scumming to overcome them. One should always have an initial clear space to allow you some tactical options.

Escort quests are actually one of the things I sort of hate about ToME. They are a good idea that was poorly implemented. There is nothing more infuriating than losing an escort that I had absolutely no chance of keeping alive. It makes me feel ripped off. If it's hard, that's one thing. That's not what we're talking about, though. It's impossible more times than not because of crappy AI, unfair placement of stairs, enemies, and portal. Also, crappy party options and the fact that escorts are always stupidly weak and useless. They don't use healing skills even if they're classes that have them, they don't use ranged attacks even if they have them, their melee attacks are pathetic, they don't have enough hps, etc, etc, etc.

I'd honestly like to see the system improved or removed. YES, REMOVED. Things that are impossible because they were designed poorly are NOT FUN. I think his suggestions aren't bad and should be considered.

Here are some more ideas:

-Let there be no random escort quests at all. Instead, you get escort quests in town. When you accept the quest, the escort will appear on the level they tell you about. That way, at least it would feel like I was prepared and have a chance. Since leaving the dungeon repopulates it, I'd still have to drag that outrageously retarded, weak, useless npc through the same hordes of monsters I did before, but now I'd know it was coming, and that makes a difference.

-Better AI. "Please save me, I'm lost and going to die!" *charges in ahead of you and gets slain by 11 trolls*

-Stronger escorts. They should at least be the same level as the enemies, especially if they're not going to heal, have any gear, or use their class's abilities in any way.

-Never let them appear on boss levels. Whoever thought that would be fun needs to be dropped off a bridge into cold water.

I'm with Grey on this one. Escorts can be infuriating, but that's what makes them interesting. And when they appear on a boss level they just have to take their chances. If they lead you straight to Wrathroot or Rantha, well, it's their funeral.

Other than a general adjustment to their AI to stop running straight at the freaking things that kill you, arglebargleWAAAAUUUUGGGHHH, I think the escorts are pretty much alright. They're less like actual quests and more like random little pieces of loot (that happen to be talents, ohoho) you occasionally find laying on the floor. Sometimes you manage to pick up th'loot, sometimes you miss it or get ran off or etc,etc,etc,etc.

They're occasionally frustrating, sure, but what's a roguelike without at least some frustration? Occasionally need the RNG to kick you in the genital equivalent to remind you you're not playing some JRPG or MMO or some junk like that. Combined with th'random nature of the map generation, some escort quests being unwinnable sounds fair and equitable. The fact that you also get escort quests where literally jack-nothing is between you, the escortee, and the portal that's 10 squares away, I'd say that th'general -- average cum statistical -- balance on the escort quests is fairly decent.

I usually lose somewhere between one and three escort quests before the quests run out... and the bonii the quests give, even with ano-whatsits getting shifted about a bit, are some of the best in the game. Minor, unnecessary, yes, but also basically free fractions of a level up, either through stat points or th'free talent. Generally, the only escort quests that are actually difficult are the ones where th'level outright shaft you... considering the benefit, losing a few, per game, on average, doesn't exactly sound like a bad design decision.

Look on the bright side. If these things were designed by crawl's devteam, escort levels would be full of insta-kill lava and monsters that have a combination of knockback and th'strike talent, who would intentionally ignore you in order to bounce the escort to their death. T4's really quite merciful

Escorts are leveled based on the PC. Any you find in Dreadfell are likely to have quite large pools of HP.

Last night I had the most frustrating escort death I've ever encountered. An Anorithil got infected with a disease by a carrion crawler doing 15 damage a turn for 42 turns - I had no chance! Frustrating, but these things happen - I accept and move on. (plus if that disease had hit my char I'd have no chance of living through it as a skeleton...)

Remember that the rewards are exceptionally good at times. If it was too easy then there'd be no point in even including them - the game may as well give you the rewards at the start of the level.

I wonder if there's some statistics for what proportion of escort quests succeed or fail...

And this is a roguelike, all hail RNG god!