ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

I'd like to be able to respec my skills. Not the stat points, since that seems like it's going a bit too far to me, but I think that being able to purchase a skill reset for say, 750 gold, is a good thing.

I just played through my first sun paladin, died around level 36, and I chose some skills that turned out to be awful. I feel like, to some degree, I was gypped. How was I supposed to know how useless they were without reading spoilers?

I spent somewhere between 6-8 hours on the character (and while that's really not that much, it's longer than it takes me to ascend in nethack, so I think it matters) only to learn when I got higher in levels that certain damage skills scale very, very poorly to the enemies' hitpoints, even with high stats. I got behind, not because I'm stupid, but because the value of skills is not really determinable by their descriptions. You have to play around to get things right. Because I can't play around with skills at all without starting a new character, this looks like sort of a "gotcha" system. It almost feels like you're pulling a prank on us.

There's plenty to learn already, like how gear should be arranged, what stats to build, what skills go with what playstyle, what order to do dungeons, how to beat certain bosses, what resistances you need when, how to solve the puzzles, and so on, without needing to allow a character, representing several hours of my valuable time, to be hobbled by filler skills that either suck or are designed to be used in very painfully specific builds.

While the playstyles vary greatly between classes in ToME, and the skills are generally creative and fun, I think that in one respect, other roguelikes like Nethack, Crawl, and ADoM, have a slightly better idea - you train what you use repeatedly. You have less potential to end up with a worthless character that way. In a system like ToME, where I'm limited in my options by what skills I've picked and can never go back, not allowing a respec is just mean.

I think you're being a bit harsh there. On your very first try of a class of course you're going to get some things wrong. Just like entering new areas in the game can mean death. This is part of the learning process of the game, and it happens in all games. Happens in life too incidentally, and I don't see you complaining to God about that ;)

I'm not against the idea of respeccing, though I wouldn't use it myself. But I think this idea of being "entitled" to a respec is a weird viewpoint, especially since I know of zero other games that have such a feature.

If you really want to get a bit of a feel for a class without dedicating a lot of time then try it out in the Arena - levelling happens fast and you can gain a lot of knowledge about how to build them very quickly. There are differences in fight style of course, but it's still a good experience.

Also if you think a skill is useless, don't just moan about it - post some suggestions! The game is still in beta stage and many tweaks are needed here and there. Eventually there should be no truly useless talents.

1 - I don't feel "entitled." I never used that word.
2 - I think this counts as a suggestion.
3 - I haven't unlocked the arena yet
4 - I can only think of one game with skill trees and point buy that DOESN'T let you respec - Titan Quest.

"Entitled" was a paraphrase for how you call the current system mean and "a prank". The whole thing is fine as a suggestion of course, but the impression I got from your post was that you felt entitled to have such a system and not having it was somehow a cruel and malicious thing.

And go unlock the arena - it's fun! Every character should do the arena quest really, as there's a fairly tasty reward to it.

I don't know how, and I don't want to read spoilers. But this is all beside the point. You said you'd like to see respecs possible, even though you wouldn't use them. So far this thread is 2 for, 0 against.

1 for, 0 against, 1 abstain ;) I have no real objections, but I'm not particularly in support of the idea.

I'm sort of against it being in roguelike mode. There were suggestions before about it being linked to the Eidolon Plane in Adventure Mode, which has a nice synergy to it.

This idea has already been proposed and extensively discussed here: http://forums.te4.org//viewtopic.php?f= ... lit=respec

I do not know what DG's opinion on the matter is, though.

gruevy wrote: 4 - I can only think of one game with skill trees and point buy that DOESN'T let you respec - Titan Quest.

You actually Can respec in Titan Quest. It costs money and you have to get to Delphi first though. Look for the dude with the blue orb above his head.