ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

I thought about rougue subclass : assasin. Stealthy murderer is the theme
Same talents as rougue except traps are replaced with tree "Silent execution"
1 Assasin poison his blades - adds 10 + 5* lv poison damage to each hit - sustained - 25 stamina cost
2 Stealthy executioner - passive - adds 3*lvl % to crit chance and + 4* stealth
3 Blink strike - Assasin teleports to a target in 12 range and hits it with both weopons for 100% + 20%*lv base damage - at lvl 5 doesnt break stealth
4 Throat cut - Powerful strike which silence target for 3 turns if they fail cunning test ( test with ( assasins cunning > 2 * targets cunning ) unresistable otherwise
50 % chance to resist. Does 100% + 15% * lvl damage and guarante critical strike. At lvl 5 doesnt break stealth.

What do you guys think about these ideas? And numbers..
I could help with coding this stuff if i got access to svn

the talents sound cool, if perhaps a little overpowered. but to warrant a whole new class, the assassin would have to feel and play in a signifcantly different fashion from a regular rogue. as it stands, the regular rogue already does the "huge amounts of single-target damage while sneaking around". the new tree would do pretty much the same thing.

some brief thoughts on what might make a cool, distinct assassin class (could combine multipe of these ideas):
A) deadly darters. give them a variety of mid-ranged debuff attacks (poisoned darts) that cripple their opponent, increasing their weaknesses to various types of damage. abilities could be used from stealth, so you sneak around, weaken your foe, then jump in for the kill.
B) poison masters. make a really poison-centric class, have several trees revolving around poison-dipped blades, enhancing ones poison attacks, granting poison resistance, an AoE poison attack, and maybe a talent that gives the character a variety of buffs (or healing) for doing poison damage. could snag some ideas from the possible arachnist class that sirocco suggested.
C) sneaky snipers. make a rogue slinger class that sneaks around and pelts its foes from the shadows (btw didn't edge suggest changing slings to crossbows? aren't crossbows just a little bit *cooler* than slings? )
D) masters of darkness. give them talents that create darkness, abilities that do dark damage, bonuses while in darkness, and major weakness to light attacks and being in light areas. probably a little too 'magical' for an assassin class, but maybe that works.
E) stealth killers. give them a tree that grants HUGE bonuses while stealthed (so they can kill a powerful enemy in one blow), but conversely, major penalties while unstealthed (armor and defense penalties, or taking increased round-the-board damage).

teachu2die wrote:the talents sound cool, if perhaps a little overpowered. but to warrant a whole new class, the assassin would have to feel and play in a signifcantly different fashion from a regular rogue. as it stands, the regular rogue already does the "huge amounts of single-target damage while sneaking around". the new tree would do pretty much the same thing.

some brief thoughts on what might make a cool, distinct assassin class (could combine multipe of these ideas):
A) deadly darters. give them a variety of mid-ranged debuff attacks (poisoned darts) that cripple their opponent, increasing their weaknesses to various types of damage. abilities could be used from stealth, so you sneak around, weaken your foe, then jump in for the kill.
B) poison masters. make a really poison-centric class, have several trees revolving around poison-dipped blades, enhancing ones poison attacks, granting poison resistance, an AoE poison attack, and maybe a talent that gives the character a variety of buffs (or healing) for doing poison damage. could snag some ideas from the possible arachnist class that sirocco suggested.
C) sneaky snipers. make a rogue slinger class that sneaks around and pelts its foes from the shadows (btw didn't edge suggest changing slings to crossbows? aren't crossbows just a little bit *cooler* than slings? )
D) masters of darkness. give them talents that create darkness, abilities that do dark damage, bonuses while in darkness, and major weakness to light attacks and being in light areas. probably a little too 'magical' for an assassin class, but maybe that works.
E) stealth killers. give them a tree that grants HUGE bonuses while stealthed (so they can kill a powerful enemy in one blow), but conversely, major penalties while unstealthed (armor and defense penalties, or taking increased round-the-board damage).

You actually have a point. However what ive seen from lua code shadowblade will be merged with chronomancy and i think that could also affect rougue in the futere. I mean more traps related skills? Atm its only one skill tree which is good only in the begining of the game based on my experience. Mb rougue could be moved more toward traps and new class more to stealth warior type. Anyway i think it could be good start for the new class which also fits the theme. As for yours idea : it looks like too big change for me.

shadowblade merging with chronomancy? i'm a bit lost by what your getting at there.

btw, my suggestions weren't meant to be all compiled into one class - just some possible ideas for trees or general builds to pick and choose from (combining maybe two of those general ideas might make a fairly distinct class).

teachu2die wrote:shadowblade merging with chronomancy? i'm a bit lost by what your getting at there.

btw, my suggestions weren't meant to be all compiled into one class - just some possible ideas for trees or general builds to pick and choose from (combining maybe two of those general ideas might make a fairly distinct class).

Ive seen in lua code that showblade will be subclass of chronomancer..
I mean subclass of chronomancer class.
type = "subclass",
name = "Infinite Traveler",
desc = {
"Shadowblades are a blend of rogues that are touched by the gift of magic; able to kill with their daggers under a veil of stealth while casting spells to enhance their performance and survival.",
"Their use of magic is innate and not really studied; as such they do not naturally regenerate mana and must use external means of recharging.",
"They use the schools of Phantasm, Temporal, Divination and Conveyance magic to enhance their arts.",
"Their most important stats are: Dexterity, Cunning and Magic",
"#GOLD#Stats modifiers:",
"#LIGHT_BLUE# * +0 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +0 Constitution",
"#LIGHT_BLUE# * +2 Magic, +2 Willpower, +3 Cunning",
},
stats = { dex=2, wil=2, mag=2, cun=3, },
talents_types = {
["chronomancy/advanced-timetravel"]={false, 0},
["chronomancy/inertia"]={false, 0},
["chronomancy/probability"]={true, 0.3},
["chronomancy/temporal-combat"]={false, 0},
["chronomancy/threading"]={true, 0},
["chronomancy/timetravel"]={true, 0.3},
["chronomancy/weaving"]={true, 0.3},
["technique/dualweapon-training"]={true, 0.2},
["technique/combat-techniques-active"]={true, 0.1},
["technique/combat-training"]={true, 0.2},
["cunning/stealth"]={false, 0.3},
["cunning/survival"]={true, 0.1},
["cunning/lethality"]={true, 0.3},
["cunning/dirty"]={true, 0.3},
},
talents = {
[ActorTalents.T_DIRTY_FIGHTING] = 1,
[ActorTalents.T_WEAPON_COMBAT] = 1,
[ActorTalents.T_BACKTRACK] = 1,
[ActorTalents.T_LETHALITY] = 1,
},

15B

The description for Infinite Traveler just hasn't been updated, the Shadowblade class is going to stay as is. I think adding an Assassination category to the Rogue class that can be unlocked at lvl 10 would be a start. In regards to SVN access, currently SVN is set up to only support the main branch and only DG has access. People develop their code locally and then send patches to DG, although at some point the VCS system may be overhauled to make this easier. Good luck!

S'considerably more likely that's just a placeholder for whatever description Infinite Traveler eventually gets -- ITs are not currently unlockable in game, so there's no need for an appropriate description while talents are being tested. The talent set is entirely different from shadowblades, and the shadowblade class itself is still under the rogue grouping as it is, so there's no real indication th'shadow blades are getting shifted anywhere. EDIT: Ninja'd, hohoho.

Regarding the actual class idea: One talent tree does not a class make, regardless of what the mages are doing in their little doomcorner. Further, I'm fairly sure both blink strike (rush) and th'crit+stealth thing (Though not in a single talent: Stealth and Lethality) are already more or less talents of the rogue class itself, so they're kinda' redundant.

I'd suggest having poison scale with cunning (maybe dropping the damage a little), and make stealthy executioner an activated skill that gives stronger bonuses against a single target.

Even better, split poison into its own talent tree (Weapon, poison gas, etc) and have an assassination based tree as well. Disguise talent, mentioned executioner, there's stuff to work with there. A passive talent that gives greater bonuses the longer you're in sight of enemies, perhaps. Garrote (constriction+stun), there's four, if you'd want to use them.

teachu2die wrote: some brief thoughts on what might make a cool, distinct assassin class (could combine multipe of these ideas):
A) deadly darters.
B) poison masters.
C) sneaky snipers.
D) masters of darkness.
E) stealth killers.

I really like all these ideas. I think it would also be appropriate if assassins weren't able to use even leather armour for their high-end stealth abilities (robes would be okay). Would make a much more interesting class with minimal defense but excellent opportunity for high damage with careful play. Their abilities could even be such that one is encouraged to avoid normal mobs and take out the bosses for big xp rewards.

How about a quick strike (better name please) talent? This would be rush combined with lightning speed, where the player's speed cranks up for X turns and allows a single melee attack (not a talent) without breaking the speed. You could use this to close distance, attack and then retreat.

here are three very very rough tree ideas for an assassin class. names and specifics would obv need a lot of work, some of the ideas are probably redundant or incompatible with existing rogue abilities, etc...but the general idea would be to weaken your opponent with darts and/or poison AoE, boost your attacks with poison blades, go in for a quick kill, and flee. i think this would at least play quite differently from a standard rogue...

deadly darts: (range would be fairly short on these)
poison dart - does poison damage and lowers enemies resistance to poison attacks.
tranquilizing dart - no damage, decreases defense, armor, and movement speed (slightly).
ink dart - no damage, small AoE blinding attack.
plague dart - moderately strong blight damage.

poison mastery:
poisoned blade - sustain, adds significant poison damage that scales with cunning.
poison mastery - grants poison resistance (maybe grants immunity at level 5?) and slightly increases damage from poison attacks (maybe 2% per level).
poison cloud - AoE poison effect, long duration, medium-low damage that scales with cunning.
??? - does large amounts of poison damage to a single target, as well as the player.

assassination techniques:
assassins stance - passive, while you are stealthed, all damage you deal is increased by X%. whenever you are unstealthed, all damage you receive is increased by a large %. wearing any body armor other than robes negates the damage boost while stealthed. (i guess this would be cumulative with the rogue ability that boosts damage while stealthed? there probably is a more interesting way to work this effect overall, i dunno)
flee into shadows - sustain, percent chance of teleporting (or phasing) when you break stealth (or maybe just when you cause damage).
dart mastery - decreases the odds of your dart attacks breaking stealth, as well as increases their efficacy (and maybe range?).
thrill of the kill - every opponent you kill while stealthed grants a temporary speed boost.

additionally, i would think they would have the dual weapon tree, stealth, lethality, etc

I really thought that shadowblades were assassins.

Nah, shadowblades are more like magical rogues. Though a ToME rogue has less to do with skulduggery and skulking about than it does with violent stabby death, but that's an old, thoroughly beaten trope horse.

Assassins would probably, uh. Huh. Be about individual disabling and maybe quick killing with relatively high setup beforehand. A little bit of get-away, maybe, but most assassins that were discovered were dead, not fleeing. Assassins were always more of a slow and methodical thing in historical context than they were hurrhurrflurryflurryflurryflurrydisengagerepeat. They'd probably have to be more cunning than dex based to be thematic, with plenty of tools to play with. A technique killer rather than DPS monster. Mid to short range physical mage In concept, anyway.

At least if you were leaning closer to th'historical bias rather than fantasy tropes. Fantasy assassins are usually things like, I'unno, Drizzt and crap. That dude that was chasing him around. S'got it's place, I guess, but the oldskool assassin was hella' more interesting, imo.

Frumple wrote:Nah, shadowblades are more like magical rogues. Though a ToME rogue has less to do with skulduggery and skulking about than it does with violent stabby death, but that's an old, thoroughly beaten trope horse.

Assassins would probably, uh. Huh. Be about individual disabling and maybe quick killing with relatively high setup beforehand. A little bit of get-away, maybe, but most assassins that were discovered were dead, not fleeing. Assassins were always more of a slow and methodical thing in historical context than they were hurrhurrflurryflurryflurryflurrydisengagerepeat. They'd probably have to be more cunning than dex based to be thematic, with plenty of tools to play with. A technique killer rather than DPS monster. Mid to short range physical mage In concept, anyway.

At least if you were leaning closer to th'historical bias rather than fantasy tropes. Fantasy assassins are usually things like, I'unno, Drizzt and crap. That dude that was chasing him around. S'got it's place, I guess, but the oldskool assassin was hella' more interesting, imo.

i was trying to go a bit for the 'cunning assassin with lots of tricks up their sleeves' with the trees i hastily cobbled together - there's not much of a place for subtlety in rogue-likes, though it's always going to boil down to "kill 'em all"...

and drizzt was a ranger, no?

Maybe after a while, but 'e wunnit much of one when matched up against an actual ranger-y thing. Dinnit even have a proper animal companion Took his bloody magicin' abilities from a diety instead of th'natural order like a right proper druid hybrid, too. E'was more like a fighter/rogue/cleric than any bloody ranger.

But 'is nemesis type fellow was an assassin. Who spent more time in th'books playing stabby-face with Drizzt than poisoning the bugger or shooting him from three buildings away like a proper assassin. Can apply your own imagination as to what someone with two brain cells to rub together can do with th'forgotten realms fluff in general when it comes to making someone dead without effort. Proper assassin woulda' done th'poisonin' or snipin', or done it right and had a mage turn 'im into a newt. None of that stabby-stabby fun time thing.

What kind of idiot assassin wears it as badge of honor they're good at in-fighting? If they're doing they're job right, they don't do crap like that!

Though yeah, it does come down to 'kill 'em all', at least in *band descendants. S'just more interestin' to do something different than 'DPShurrhurrescapetrick'. Most of the stuff you suggested would do a'ight -- the only thing I'd change for thematic reasons would be the thrill of the kill thing. Speed's not really an assassin's shtick, trope wise. One hit one kill, then calmly meander over to the next one, na'running around like a chicken wit'cher head cut off. That sorta' thing would fit better with one of the afflicted classes.

If crossbows were to be implemented they would be a very good choice for assassains, thematicly, High wind up very high arpen and front loaded damage, assuming heavily poisoned attacks from talent trees.

In my eyes an assassain would wait with a marked target in view, and gain a bonus to +hit/crit/damage up to a point for keeping the target in view, whilst remaining in stealth as turns pass, then fire one shot to kill them outright, or hopefully at least put them in the range for the poison to finish them off and then skulk away whilst the now alerted mobs move to investigate the area where the shot came from.