ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Those who have playeed Doom or seen the Indiana Jones movies know that if you encounter a really good treasure in a dungeon it is usually trapped. In Doom this created great situation where you could see very good items that you needed to take but that you know would be followed by sudden appearance of numerous monsters; usually attacking from behind. A very good tension builder. Also creates interesting tactical situations that differs from the usual ones.

The idea is thus, taking advantage of the fact that with identification artifact you can now know if there is something exceptional on the ground, that the more powerful an item you find (relative to average items on the level), the higher a chance it has to be trapped. This should not be a boring damage trap but should instead give a Doom dread and tactical situation; that is, numerous monsters will appear around you and start attacking. Considering that most everyone will have a means of PD/teleportation these days, the monsters should be allowed to act instantly so that they have a chance to do something interesting and scary before you hopefully manage to PD away.

So... you're basically saying "PD/Teleport should be even *more* necessary than it is already." This is what I'm hearing you saying.

Mind you, it is a somewhat cool idea. I just think your implementation is off. Personally, I would suggest it instead for a specialized vault type. Make it a distinctive shape, and put some really nice item in the middle. As soon as the player steps on the square with the item, Something Ugly Happens. You could actually probably do well enough with a juiced-up summoning trap. Make it a sufficiently high-level trap (relative to the surrounding area) that even particularly trap-focused rogues of appropriate level would be taking a risk trying to disarm it. Make it summon a batch of out-of-level critters when stepped on. Of course, after it fires off, you can teleport immediately, but you won't have had time to pick the thing up yet.

Sirrocco wrote:So... you're basically saying "PD/Teleport should be even *more* necessary than it is already." This is what I'm hearing you saying.

Mind you, it is a somewhat cool idea. I just think your implementation is off. Personally, I would suggest it instead for a specialized vault type. Make it a distinctive shape, and put some really nice item in the middle. As soon as the player steps on the square with the item, Something Ugly Happens. You could actually probably do well enough with a juiced-up summoning trap. Make it a sufficiently high-level trap (relative to the surrounding area) that even particularly trap-focused rogues of appropriate level would be taking a risk trying to disarm it. Make it summon a batch of out-of-level critters when stepped on. Of course, after it fires off, you can teleport immediately, but you won't have had time to pick the thing up yet.

Having a special vault means that it cannot be used easily or regularly for for very good items or artifacts in general. Also, a vault does not seem to add anything except the appearance. That artifacts may be in vaults and that vaults may be trapped is already implemented.

My point is that if you say "hey, every nice thing that exists on the ground should have a possible death trap that will kill people who don't use teleport", you're pretty much horking over people who don't use teleport. You're driving vaults from "it's going to be tricky/dangerous, but I might get nice stuff" to "It will be tricky/dangerous, and if I do get nice stuff, there's a good chance that the stuff will kill me, and I almost certainly won't be able to pick up all of it." Or, to put it another way, yes. Yes, that's *exactly* what it means. The point of it being a vault is to hang a big red warning sign over it saying "Hey, there's a really very dangerous monster-summoning trap on this pile of loot. How badly do you want it? Do you feel lucky?" and then let them actually opt to say "no, no I do not" categorically without having to simply turn down every piece of out-of-depth loot they find.

What if this was implemented as a vault type?

Could have a vault that ties a script to an object or a floor tile and summons/fills the room with lava/traps/whatever when the object is picked up.

The vault wouldn't even have to be anything special, imagine running across...
Pick up said artifact and bam, room fills with OOD trap tiles, monsters, or locks and fills with lava.

*generally though I agree with Sirrocco, adding a chance to get ambushed every time you pick up an artifact doesn't sound like much fun to me, nor does it make much sense.

ARRRGGHH-- I killed the MASTER, picked up his loot, and got ambushed! TWICE!!! /mourns the loss of his character.

Sirrocco wrote:My point is that if you say "hey, every nice thing that exists on the ground should have a possible death trap that will kill people who don't use teleport", you're pretty much horking over people who don't use teleport. You're driving vaults from "it's going to be tricky/dangerous, but I might get nice stuff" to "It will be tricky/dangerous, and if I do get nice stuff, there's a good chance that the stuff will kill me, and I almost certainly won't be able to pick up all of it." Or, to put it another way, yes. Yes, that's *exactly* what it means. The point of it being a vault is to hang a big red warning sign over it saying "Hey, there's a really very dangerous monster-summoning trap on this pile of loot. How badly do you want it? Do you feel lucky?" and then let them actually opt to say "no, no I do not" categorically without having to simply turn down every piece of out-of-depth loot they find.

Obviously I did not mean that the game should have a big chance to kill you. I did not even mean that it should be as dangerous as a boss fight. Just a somewhat tough fight that will raise tension and make you slightly nervous for, but that if you prepare for it, since you know that one is coming, you will be able to handle. Teleport would not be needed if you are a melee character but might be a good if you are not good in such situations.

The purpose is to create some anticipatory tension, which games such as Doom was very good at when you picked up very good treasure, and create different battle situations from the ordinary corridor fights.

ARRRGGHH-- I killed the MASTER, picked up his loot, and got ambushed! TWICE!!! /mourns the loss of his character.

Edge2054, I did not mean for this to apply to items dropped from a monster you just have defeated. Only to extraordinary items you find without a fight first.

Urk, tension is the last thing I want from a game! When a game starts stressing me out, that is Definitely when I stop playing it.

On the other hand, thinking more there are ways that I think this could be really cool. What if it were as much flavor as danger? For instance, when money is on the dungeon floor not dropped by anyone, there could be a certain chance that picking it up will trigger a rogue.