ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

At the moment only 2 races have unique abilities that benefit all classes - Cornac and Dwarf. This is because of the other races having abilities that scale with certain stats. Many classes won't use those stats much, and so that race is suboptimal to combine them with. On top of this the Cornac ability is now kinda overpowered, since it can also be used for an extra rune/infusion slot, which is very very useful.

I suggest that all racial abilities scale with level instead of stat. This makes sense from a point of view of it being an innate racial ability, regardless of other character features. It also makes sense from a game point of view, since it opens up the races a lot more.

I also suggest pushing the Cornac category point back to level 40. This makes them a less "obvious" choice for many classes, whilst still providing the same benefit in the long term. It also fits in better with the idea that regular humans are weaker at the start but have the potential to learn more overall. At the moment for many classes humans are the strongest at the start, since they can have instant access to powerful trees. In cases where these trees are now being forced to have level 10 requirements it only goes to show how overpowered the initial category point is. Cornac would still be a viable choice for the lower xp requirement (extremely helpful for classes that need to advance up their talent trees quickly).

I really like the first idea, to make racial abilities scale with level.
But I really dislike the second. Why should what is now the main 'benefit' of the race be delayed so long? You might die LONG before you get that bonus, and the lack of an exp penalty isn't that hot then, compared to what you'd get by being a Higher.

Yes, +1 category point is powerful...but so are the dwarf defensive bonuses, or the Shalore +speed abilities. And I'm sure there are people enjoy who the other racial talents.


Keep in mind that by making racial talents scale with level you already DO make Cornacs relatively less attractive, by making some other race/class combos more viable.

As an example: Currently, I wouldn't go for Thalore Fighter/Berserker(I go Dwarf like, all of the time) because their talent relies on Willpower. By going for a class that doesn't need Willpower, I'd feel like I was missing out on the 'main' racial ability.
On the other hand, if the racial depended on character level and thus always got better as I gained experience...I'd try this.

Zonk wrote: But I really dislike the second. Why should what is now the main 'benefit' of the race be delayed so long? You might die LONG before you get that bonus, and the lack of an exp penalty isn't that hot then, compared to say, Highers.

Yes, you might die long before, thus making them the class of choice for those that are very confident in themselves ;)

At the moment most of the racial abilities can be reasonably well duplicated or vastly exceeded with a rune/infusion slot. The stat bonuses of the other races are nice, but quickly disappear. There's really not much reason to play anything other than Cornac, except perhaps flavour.

i don't see any real problem with races being particularly well-suited to certain classes.
the bigger issue is that the races themselves need to be better differentiated (plenty of ideas have been tossed around)...i'd be interested to see races even MORE suited to specific classes and specific builds, via racial skill modifiers, inherent resists, etc..

racial talents scaling from level sounds reasonable, though.

It seems to me that it would be very silly if all races were equally good at being all classes. For instance, if you asked whether a high elf, a dwarf and a halfling would all be likely to be equally cut out for a career as a warrior, wouldn't most of us say NO, of course not?

It seems to me equally silly that hobbits are only good at beings slingers and rogues, because no one else has the appropriate investment in the Cunning stat. If the stat relations were removed then one's choice of race would be based on initial stats and how well the racial talent synergises with other class talents.

And then we'd all be hollering about needing to differentiate the races.

Well, I've already hollered about that actually. Currently they're not all that different really. One may as well choose Cornac for the flexibility.

Well, that means must mean there is some difference, because I never do choose cornacs.

Grey wrote:It seems to me equally silly that hobbits are only good at beings slingers and rogues, because no one else has the appropriate investment in the Cunning stat. If the stat relations were removed then one's choice of race would be based on initial stats and how well the racial talent synergises with other class talents.

solutions:
more classes that rely on cunning.
more subraces of hobbit.

Personally, I play hobbit alchemists with some regularity - they get more HP per level than the base humans, the dex and con are useful, and they don't tank magic. As for infusions... you max out at 5 anyway. The Cornacs can use it as a a significant boost in the beginning-game, it's true, but there are a lot of classes that only care about one unlock tree - which means that by level 30, the Cornac's advantage is back down to +0.100 modifier in tree of choice. I also play dwarves - I personally find their special power not all that helpful, but they have very nice Hp numbers, and, again, favorable statlines are good things.

Also worth noting - if you are into grinding, having the exp mod to slow your leveling helps. If you're big on dive, dive, dive, then you'd like your level to keep up with you, but if you are willing to sit and grind, it means that you're that much better-equipped when you face monsters of whatever level you're facing.