ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

How about changing the default combat of wyrmics from two-handed to weapon and shield? Maybe we can make a pool?

i believe wyrmics are supposed to get their defensive strengths from icy skin.
and if you really want weapon and shield from the get go, you can make a bree-man character (they have an additional class skill point.)

that said, i wouldn't be opposed to certain classes have a little more flexibility from the start....

Yeah, that would be nice for many classes

No reason why we can't have a Sun Paladin with a 2 handed sword, or a berserker with two axes

I think having the default Wyrmic combat style be two-handed makes sense...what I don't really like(and sorry for the slight offtopic)is the Cursed axe-only limitation. I think that should be changed to any two-handed weapon.

i like the axe limitation. i wish more classes had similar restrictions, and that there were more marked differences between axes/maces/swords in general. these are different weapon types, and should have different strengths and dictate different play styles.
i also very much dislike the merger of weapon technique skills that occurred within the last beta. it seems like it is prudent for the time being, with a limited pool of artifacts and little to differentiate the different weapon types, but i hope to see this reversed as more classes and weapons appear in the game.

teachu2die wrote:these are different weapon types, and should have different strengths and dictate different play styles.

There are already significant differences though - weapons differ in base attack speed, damage, crit chance, how damage is affected by stats...

Zonk wrote:

teachu2die wrote:these are different weapon types, and should have different strengths and dictate different play styles.

There are already significant differences though - weapons differ in base attack speed, damage, crit chance, how damage is affected by stats...

I haven't seen anything that involves altered attack speed when it comes to knives, swords, axes and maces. The variable damage ranges between the 1 handed variants are barely a few points, 2 handed variants are a bit wider marginalized though. APR and crit chances are also for the most part just a few points apart (with knives being much greater in both than the other three 'core' groups). Maces, Axes, Swords all use ONLY str to modify their damage, while staffs use only magic. Knives are str and dex (I think), bows str and dex, and slings dex and cun. There isn't really that much differentiation to say that there is enough. Sure, the current artifacts that are in place are starting to paint a picture as to how the 'core 3' should pan out, vanilla wise.

Also, the fact that as far as I can remember there aren't too many (if any) certain weapon type egos yet. Right now it REALLY is a cosmetic effect to call a weapon an axe/sword/mace when really it's 'melee, 1 handed, and not a knife'.

teachu2die wrote:i believe wyrmics are supposed to get their defensive strengths from icy skin.
and if you really want weapon and shield from the get go, you can make a bree-man character (they have an additional class skill point.)

that said, i wouldn't be opposed to certain classes have a little more flexibility from the start....

Well, my propose wasn't about defense (even if the shield is a good source of resistances), but about usefulness. The two-handed weapon techniques look useless to me (I don't know about Death Blow, losing all my stamina seems a big gamble). The berserker skill is suicidal: -X defense -X armor? Why not paint a target on my chest too?

yup as final master said, the differences are essentially cosmetic. a few points damage makes verrry little difference. the metal quality makes far more difference than weapon type itself. at this point, now that the weapons masteries have been merged, we really might as well just have a "mithril one handed weapon" or "dwarven-steel two-handed weapon", and leave it at that.
it would be nice to see more talent trees, unique ego types, artifacts, and classes built around the use of specific weapon types. not only does it add muuuuch more flavor (just knowing your character is a swordmaster or an axemaster makes a huge difference psychologically), but it opens up whole new worlds of character design and tactics.

as far as the skillsets, i agree the main two-handed weapons talents are not the most useful.....but the weapons themselves are....

Do not hesitate to propose weapon type specific trees

The berserker skill is suicidal: -X defense -X armor? Why not paint a target on my chest too?

If you are playing a berserker the idea is to completely demolish your enemy before they ever touch you. I've had the most trouble with berserkers with small creature mobs....ants, worms, jellies, snakes. Bosses on the other hand? As long as I can see them they are usually dead before they can blink (Mummy Lord, I'm looking at you.....I think).

paboperfecto wrote:If you are playing a berserker the idea is to completely demolish your enemy before they ever touch you. I've had the most trouble with berserkers with small creature mobs....ants, worms, jellies, snakes. Bosses on the other hand? As long as I can see them they are usually dead before they can blink (Mummy Lord, I'm looking at you.....I think).

Are you talking about wyrmics using the two-hands techniques (just one tree) or a full berserker that also have stunning blow?

Beside the weapon and shield techniques, the wyrmics had no stunning sources until the new storm drake/tornado came on beta 13, but tornado also knocks back the target so its harder to take advantage of.

So, for me at least, the available weapon and shield tree is more useful to wyrmics than the two-handed weapons tree. Thats why I wanted it to be the default.

That could be, I haven't played wyrmics for many betas now.

I've been playing a few lately and the two-handed tree they have access to really isn't that great for them.

Aside from Death Dance I don't find myself wanting to invest in any of the other talents.

To break it down.

Berserker - Probably the most desirable aside from Death Dance. 10 armor and 10 defense is a pretty big hit though. If I do stick with two-handed weapons this talent and death dance will be the reasons why.
Warshout - There's a fire drake talent that does almost exactly this.
Death Blow - Nice before it drains all my stamina but the cooldown is really long. Coupled with Death Dance you're looking at two long cooldowns for spending stamina and that's it (warshout aside).

On the other hand we have...

Shield Pummel - Great Talent!
Riposte - Probably pretty meh with a Wyrmic.
Overpower - Not bad aside from the knockback.
Assault - Another great talent!

Anyway for my personal preference I'll take a long hard look at berserker and if it's not worth investing in I'll pick up shield fighting.

If we had the option to learn two-handed cripple (which would compliment the two-handed fighting they already have) it'd be a no brainer. But Two-Handed Offense doesn't compare to the Shield Offense tree. At least not for Wyrmics.

Having only recently unlocked them I've not had a chance to play a wyrmic yet, but to me it seems like they shouldn't really be using weapons at all. How about an unarmed tree for them? Something like:

Wyrmic Combat

1. Raking Claws (passive)
You grow long, hard nails capable of tearing through flesh and armour.
Unarmed now triples in damage, with a strength modifier of 120%, APR of 5 and crit chance 9%. Two attacks per round. Damage, APR and crit increase with effective talent level.

2. Malicious Strike (activated)
A single cruel strike with your right claw for 170% damage, causing armour to be sundered and heavy bleeding in the target.
Damage, armour sundering and blood-letting increase with effective talent level.

3. Dragon's Maw (passive)
When attacking you now also bite with your elongated teeth for 150% damage. Bites have a 5% chance to stun an opponent.
Damage and stun chance increase with effective talent level.

4. Uh, something else
Some fancy attack to replace the lost two-handed abilities.