ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

The current way of unlocking Skeletons and Ghouls does not feel like an achievement. First, you get the reward when dying. Second, due to the randomness of the unlocking if feels like winning a game of chance. Third, the chance of unlocking especially Ghouls is very low since they are relatively rare. Four, current system positively encourages save game cheating in order to get the unlocking especially for Ghouls.

I like the current system for unlocking Pyromancers, Cryomancers, and Reavers. So maybe unlocking Skeletons and Ghouls could be made similar?

Also it would be nice to know how close on is to unlocking. Maybe on the class/race screens there could some info like "5555 points of cold damage away from unlocking Pyromancers". Would be quite an encouragement to get those goals.

I second the countdown for the unlocks.

About the save file scumming... It could be easily avoided, and I think it actually will when the game exits beta stage.

Example: assign a unique identifier (like a GUID) to each game at character birth (a new one even when quick-starting); then store in an encrypted file this uid for all alive characters, and remove it upon character death. Trying to load a game with an uid not present in the file would abort the operation. You cannot scum manually adding the invalid uid to the file, since it is encrypted.

Obviously there would still means to go around this kind of protection, involving cracking the encryption system by brute force or reverse engineering of the decryption system used by the game itself, but it would require some expertise and thus would be just enough for the vast majority of the users.

Feanor.81 wrote: About the save file scumming... It could be easily avoided, and I think it actually will when the game exits beta stage.

And why should it be avoided?
If someone wants to cheat, let him, it's his choice.
It's not an on-line game, so nobody else suffers because of this.
Anyway, save scumming is more tedious task than in earlier versions (longer saving time, more files), so there is no other punishment needed

Of course, ladders etc. are another thing, so some means to mark character as "save scummer" (and how many times it was done) or something like that would be good.

Feanor.81 wrote:I second the countdown for the unlocks.

About the save file scumming... It could be easily avoided, and I think it actually will when the game exits beta stage.

Example: assign a unique identifier (like a GUID) to each game at character birth (a new one even when quick-starting); then store in an encrypted file this uid for all alive characters, and remove it upon character death. Trying to load a game with an uid not present in the file would abort the operation. You cannot scum manually adding the invalid uid to the file, since it is encrypted.

Obviously there would still means to go around this kind of protection, involving cracking the encryption system by brute force or reverse engineering of the decryption system used by the game itself, but it would require some expertise and thus would be just enough for the vast majority of the users.

Even if you avoid outright save cheating the current system for unlocking Skeletons and Ghouls is still problematic for the other reasons listed.

Also, you can still cheat. Many people will likely just start special characters whose sole purpose is finding a Skeleton or Ghoul and then die.

The system for Pyromancers/Cryomancers/Reavers is much better.

I agree completely. There's logic to achievements Gau.ed through dying to weak monsters and I personally have no patience to keep rolling chars to suicide against the whims of the RNG.

I concur

What would you have in mind ?

Maybe killing x (not 2 million! lol) ghoul type npcs with each kill carrying over between plays? Atleast it would be in theme with more of the unlocks that way too.

Yeah I had thought of that one obviously but I'm trying to find something more unique

Perhaps in the same vein as that then, getting hit with disease and possibly not curing it some 500 times or something?

Yup i was thinking about same, getting diseased by ghoul, or get bitten by them x times
"You feel that something is getting different in you, this time you were able to fight it, but you feel someday you wont be able to resist."

or just dieing x times, seeing as Ghoulking summons his x minions, finishing x valuts with ghouls.

but i personaly like most unlock by getting bitten by ghoul x times : P

Yeah I like that for ghouls (and posisbly vampire when they come into being).

For skeletons .. hum .. being ripped of your boned 500 times ?

for skeletons i would like to see Necromancer class and as playing him summon x skeletons:
"After sharing fate with your unliving companions you get extremely close to them."
or get x damage in game life time:
"Fierce battles has taken their toll on your body, after uncountable fights your flesh started to separate from your bones... literally"

A problem with being bitten is that it will inevitable lead to people keeping a pet ghoul alive in order to be bitten by it numerous times (preferably with an Archmage who can heal the disease.)

Similarly with being killed x number of times. It will easily be abused by creating characters that exist only to be killed.

If killing x number of skeleton and ghouls is to similar to already existing classes (personally I think not) then other possibilities could be:

*killing the Master will unlock skeleton. Killing him 20 times will unlock ghouls. Or some other number. The idea being that the Master is a major obstacle for many players and killing him should be rewarded. He is also an undead so it fits.

*doing x points of blight damage will unlock one or both.

*using x number of Blood of Life will unlock one of both.

*Path of the Dead entered from the outside and a boss defeated.

Ahh I like the master idea!
I'll probably do that

Another idea for this or another race - unlock them by taking one down to -100% HP with a killing blow. Or possibly by killing one (or several, or a chance generated) in a single hit.