ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Warriors are sadly lacking in ToME 4. I played a Fighter through all four orc prides, but switched to an Archmage when I was balked by the no-fourth-orb bug.

At high levels, my Archmage had just as much health since he had enough stat points to max Con after finishing with Magic and Will, and had enough generic points to get 5/5 Health. The Archmage also had better defense, both melee and ranged, due to Blur Sight and Feather Wind. Stone Skin also put the Archmage's armor around what I had with the Fighter, though I don't recall the exact numbers. And that includes the 40 armor and 40 defense bonus of a maxed out Shield Wall.

I don't even want to try playing a Berserker. Browsing their trees, and thinking about how much trouble I had on my Fighter in the Orc Prides, I can't imagine a Berserker having much of a chance. Yes, they do more damage, but dealing damage was never my Fighter's problem. The problem was surviving the storms of magical and elemental damage I had to wade through.

Here are some of my thoughts on giving Warriors (especially Berserkers) a fair shot at endgame content:

1) Drastically reduce the cooldown of Rush. It's 40 turns currently, and needs to be down around 5-10, especially for the Berserker. He's berserk. He should be in a near constant state of charging recklessly into hordes of enemies and trampling them.

2) Perfect Strike seems useless to me. I never had problems with aim, mostly due to Weapon Combat. A huge bonus to attack for only a handful of rounds is a big waste of talent points, unless there's something about the talent or the Attack stat that I'm missing.

3) Quick Recovery and Fast Metabolism need to be buffed. They don't do enough to keep Warriors where they belong: in the middle of a brawl.

4) Include some sort of life-leeching mechanic, either on some artifacts, a new ego weapon, or as a Warrior talent. Or preferably all three. Vampiric weapons made ToME 2 melee lots of fun. Maybe replace Perfect Strike with such a talent. Berserkers in particular will need this, as their only defense is a lot of health, which, as it turns out, is no more health than a Fighter or Archmage can have. (I'm not sure on that last point; do Berserkers get more health per level than other classes?)

5) If Berserkers don't get more health per level than other classes, that needs to change. They don't have a shield wall, they don't attack from range, they can't detect, they have no damage shields, they have no ordinary shields, and no heals. All this means they should have a mountain of hitpoints. Like double what an Archmage can get, I'd say.

6) Warriors need some way of mitigating non-physical damage. I think a talent that applies a certain percentage of their armor value to reducing incoming elemental damage would fit. Armor should reduce some damage types besides purely physical. Really, if somebody is going to douse you with a flamethrower or throw a bucket of acid on you, you'd definitely rather be wearing a set of plate mail than a T-shirt and jeans. Lightning damage should probably go right through any armor, though.

7) Include a new type of ego shield: "of [damage type] Reflection." Have it bounce back (a fraction of?) single-target damage spells of the appropriate damage type. Put on your Mithril Shield of Blight Reflection before tangling with orc Blood Mages.

I'm sure I'll think of plenty more. I'd love to hear what other people think on the subject, especially on the subject of warrior survivability in the endgame. They do pretty well before the Far East.

A final note: I'm not calling for the balancing of classes against one another. I'm perfectly fine with Archmages being easy mode and the other classes being more challenging. But playing through to the blue wizards on my Archmage made me realize that I was probably doomed if I tried the fight with a Warrior. Same goes for the jeweler quest, but that's been discussed already.

Spell Reflection as a talent would be nice too.

Anti-magic for berserkers is a long standing fantasy troupe as well. Maybe give the spell damage reduction to berserkers and some sort of spell reflection talent to fighters?

Or maybe just give berserkers straight physical and spell damage resistance equal to a percentage of their saves (from some sort of talent of course).

Or... what if Spell Shield provided spell damage resistance on top of spell saves? Is spell damage resistance all inclusive or is it just non-elemental damage?

I think it would be a good idea to give a berserker a CON based talent tree that increases their health and stamina to insane levels, among other things (Increase speed when you take a hit?)

Also, looking at the superiorities tree, it seems the only thing somewhat useful is Juggernaught. Knocking away enemies as you move towards them defeats the purpose of melee, and shattering blows damages you as well? When most enemies have more HP than you do... that isn't good.

Those are good ideas, I do not think figtjhers are that underpowered, but berserkers probably are yes.

You should try to cook up some talent trees, see if the dark god likes them

This tree should be for berserkers only to combat how they end up being orc pride food unless they die earlier.

Battle Fervor
Unending Stamina
Passive.
5 points
Just a copy/paste of Quick Recovery combat technique to enhance stamina regeneration even further.

No Fear of Death (better name for this, if you can think of one?)
Sustained, 40 stamina.
5 points
Cooldown: 50
The barbarian strikes with greater power, adding (TL*5)% damage to his blows, + another percentage modifier that increases the closer the barbarian gets to dying. This ability drains stamina quickly. (probably better to be very quickly, it's meant to be a panic button power).

Deflection
Sustained, 30?ish? stamina.
5 points
Cooldown: 15
The barbarian's reflexes are honed so effectively, he has learned to deflect (TL * 7.5)% of incoming projectile attacks. If these projectile attacks are intended to explode on impact, the projectile just ignores the barbarian and either hits its maximum range or next object in line. (this is meant to be an always-on power in areas where projectile attacks would be rampant)

"Study" (name change, please? Can't think of anything better.)
Passive
10 points
The barbarian learns from his foes, and upon death (*coughs* or if food gets implemented, upon consumption of the corpse) has a (TL*2)% chance to gain (1+TL/10)% resistance to a damage type his foe did to him, to a maximum of (TL*3.33)%. Maybe allow the max resistance to go up higher, this is supposed to be the last tree available to barbarians, either through a quest or from stat requirements of the talents.

New Berserker tree:

Bloodthirst

-Bloodbath (passive): Scoring a critical hit grants the berserker a (20*TL)% increase in health and stamina regeneration for TL turns. (For a long fight, a berserker who has this talent maxed would expect to have this buff pretty much permanently active as long as they have a reasonable crit chance).

-Mortal Terror (passive): Any enemy suffering a blow that does more than (20 + (30-TL*5))% of its health in damage is paralyzed with terror for 3 turns.

-Favor of Tulkas (passive): Slaying an enemy in a single turn (100% health to dead) attracts the fond regard of Tulkas, who grants the berserker a Strength bonus of TL*7 for 5 + TL turns. (This will give the berserker a feeling of momentum; keep one-shotting bad guys to keep that buff, which of course makes it easier to one-shot bad guys).

-Unstoppable (activated with long cooldown): The berserker enters a battle frenzy for 2+TL turns, during which all healing has no effect, he cannot use any items, and he cannot drop below 1 hit point. At the end of the frenzy, the berserker recovers TL*5% of his health for each enemy killed during the frenzy. (Berserker panic button. Better kill something during the frenzy, though, or you're pretty much screwed when it wears off.)

This tree is meant to add some survivability to the berserker while keeping the berserker doing what he's supposed to be doing: recklessly smashing his way forward into crowds of bad guys. The best defense is a good offense! We don't want our berserkers running off to heal or teleporting away like sissies.

Here's a Con based tree that should help Berserkers survival.

Techniques/Hardiness
Hard to Kill - You're much harder to kill then the average man. For each talent point invested your hit die is improved by 2 (needs to be applied retroactively, ie hit dice should be rerolled when this talent is picked up but only the better of the two results should apply).
Calloused Flesh - Your skin is covered in the scars of many battles. You gain X% physical damage resistance. (scales with con).
Unbeliever - Not only do you think magic-users are weak and puny you believe that magic is as well, a belief that's so strong you've learned to shrug off magical attacks. You gain X% spell damage resistance. (scales with con)
Undying Rage (sustained, drains stamina while active) - Enter an Undying Rage, gaining X% hit points and X% hit point regen. In addition the deaths of your enemies fuel your rage, giving you X stamina per enemy killed. If your hit points are below your natural maximum when the rage ends you die.

*edit* I really like the bloodthirst tree too. I think we we're thinking along the same lines with the apex talent especially.

For Undying Rage, let's say a berserker with 1500 health uses it and it bumps him up to 2000 health. Then he does some brawling and he's at 1200 health when it wears off. He dies? Or am I misunderstanding?

If I get it right, it's something you'd use in a last ditch situation.

Nah, I wrote that wrong (was distracted with some other stuff).

It should be...

Bonus hit points are subtracted when the rage ends, potentially killing you.

e.g. If you're at 1500 naturally and 2000 when you rage, if you're at 420/2000 when the rage ends you're hit point total will become -80/1500.

*edit* Honestly I like Susramanian's tree better though for the most part except maybe Mortal Terror (maybe make this a stun effect and base it off system shock from massive damage?)

Fighters still need a tree though so lets try.

Techniques/Hardened-Veteran

Hardiness (passive) - You're much tougher then the average man. Your hit die is increased by 2 per talent point and each time your hit die are calculated they're rolled twice and you get the better of the two results. (Each time this talent is raised hit dice should be rerolled).

Gag (active) - Your battle experience has taught you how to deal with spell casters... with a swift pummel to the throat. Inflicts X% of weapon damage (low weapon damage) and silences for X turns.

Calloused Flesh (passive) - Your skin is so covered in scars it lets you shrug off damage a normal man could not. Gain X% physical and spell damage resistance.

Spell Reflection (sustained/requires shield) - You've learned to bounce spells off your shield and back at the attacker. While this talent is active you have an X% chance of Reflecting projected spells.

Okay, that makes way more sense. Possible revision: after it wears off, the bonus health is subtracted over the course of X turns, so you have a chance to save yourself.

I have added a Bloodthirst tree for berserkers!

Still pondering for figthers, keep the ideas flowing!

edge2054 wrote: Gag (active) - Your battle experience has taught you how to deal with spell casters... with a swift pummel to the throat. Inflicts X% of weapon damage (low weapon damage) and silences for X turns.

I got a fighter through the prides in the last beta, generally without too much trouble. If a spellcaster is next to you, they're not a big problem. Shield bash will stun them, and assault may kill them outright. The big problem is spellcasters that are far away.

I managed *mancers and corrupters by using other NPCs as blockers. But that won't work any more. What they need is some way to deal with area-effect spells and dragon breath. Maybe something like:

Bunker (sustained) - You make a shelter from your shield to keep out the elements. Reduces area-effect spell/breath damage by x% but reduces attack bonus by y%.

I just rolled up a Berserker in beta 12. I'm looking at the talent trees and it appears that there are about a million class talents and very, very few generic talents. In fact, I couldn't find a single place I wanted to invest my generic point at level 1. They all require either more levels or more strength or more cunning (which I'll never get). I suggest making the combat techniques tree (the one starting with Quick Recovery) generic. It feels like a generic tree anyway; it's good for anybody who has a stamina bar, no matter their fighting style.