Diminishing returns against effects

[marvalis]

For balancing effects diminishing returns has proven its value in many other game. Especially games where PvP plays an important role, most effects that slow or otherwise hinder an opponent are subject to diminishing returns. For example: WoW wiki diminishing returns.

Not all effects should be affected by this, but here is a short list of some that might:

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Dazed
Stunned
Frozen
Confused
Blinded
Silenced
Pinned
Disarmed
Paralyze
Slowed

Whenever one of these effects ends on the player, the player gets a temporary buff against that effect. For example, in the form of an effect called: Daze_resistant.
> reduced chance to suffer from the effect (higher saves versus this effect)
> if the same effect is applied again, halve the duration of that effect.

I propose a 3-turn buff whenever one of the above effects ends on a player or a monster.

[Grey]

Nice idea, and something that the player will deal with more intelligently than the AI (so it doesn't nerf PC abilities too much). In a way it's like the compliment of the inscription saturations.

[Frumple]

This already happens with teleportation effects, oddly enough. I know there was some discussion for something similar for stun, a while back -- probably when brainstorming was being done to change it from old-stun to now.

What might be interesting is if, instead of a 'daze resistance', we tied this into edge's type/subtype reorganization, making a more generalized system in the process.

Basic thought: Have multiple short-term buffs, boosting resistance and/or reduction duration. One is for type, the others are for subtype. Each time you get hit, the buff's duration resets and the effect increases. Resistance start small with type and slightly larger with subtype, rising faster in the latter's case.

Realistically, either change probably won't do much (it's fairly rare a monster can chain-use the same debuff, or even cast multiple status effects in a short period), but it might be interesting nonetheless. I could see spellshield, from the combat veteran tree, changed to accentuate the effect of the resistance buff, and possibly increase the duration.

[edge2054]

Yeah, subtypes would be an easy way to handle this.

If this became a blanket game mechanic though I'd personally prefer it to be invisible. I don't want a stun resist buff popping up every time I get hit with a stun effect. Diminishing returns on effects are common enough that I think it would be enough to tell the player that they're part of the game mechanics without having to display exactly how or when they're working.

If this was included on a few talents then a status effect would be fine.

To borrow Marv's list and consolidate it down into how it would look by subtype...

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Dazed, Stunned, Frozen, Paralyzed -- stun subtype
Confused -- confusion subtype
Blinded -- blind subtype
Silenced -- silence subtype
Pinned -- pin subtype
Disarmed -- disarm subtype
Slowed -- slow subtype

[jotwebe]

Sounds good.

Would help against chain stun for the player, and encourage more variation into the players' offensive arsenal for bossfights...

[marvalis]

I would like to point out that, when this is implemented in the form of a beneficial effect (like freeze_resistance(3 turns)),
then the new effects 'covers' the old ones. If there are monsters that remove -number- of beneficial effect from the player, then one will be covered by the freeze_resistance effect, and freeze_resistance will be removed instead of the older effect.

The 'cover' mechanic could be a significant benefit to having this effect. This could be beneficial to both the player and monsters.

[bricks]

Just had a thought on diminishing returns. They could readily be worked into the current system if negative physical/magical/mental effects, when applied, also temporarily conferred bonuses to the appropriate save, which would function somewhat like saturation effects (stack on multiple applications, longer duration = higher bonus to saves). If that seems too dramatic, the effect could replace some underwhelming class skills. (I think Edge was planning something like this for the Conditioning tree, so it could also be redundant in that instance.) I'd put the code together myself if I had the savvy to compile svn and work from there.

The obvious disadvantage of this is how it basically shuts down a whole class, instead of a group of skills. If the effect isn't too tremendous, I think players will be able to handle it (especially if foo-power counters foo-saves, which I think it does). It's still better than putting together more and more skill categories every time a new effect is added to the game.

Edit: Doh. Just read through the thread again and realized I didn't say much of anything new. I still think this idea is worth pursuing.

[jenx]

This is still a good idea. Any chance of having it implemented?

[marvalis]

Cross-linking to another topic discussing this issue
http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?p=131607#p131607

A topic about stun-lock:
http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=3 ... 75#p133475