ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

UPDATE for 1.5.x

GWF now only gives one extra blow per turn, which dramatically affects the calculations below.

Cunning Artifice looks ok, but it has a four-turn CD

So, the hunt for the max hits from one hit or turn is now on again...


UPDATE: I got 14 from one hit, so theoretical max goes up to 52. edited below

This is a competition - who can get the most number of melee hits from a single talent? I'm only meaning in the main game, so i don't include saw butchers etc.

I've been experimenting and I've got 25 so far.

Obviously, it has to be an adventurer build:

Dual-wielding + reaving combat + flexible combat + gloves with double cripple ego (40%) + greater weapon focus + magical combat + psionic focus (or any TK providing talent)

my experiments suggest that the theoretical maximum would be 52 hits, because I can get 14 from one bump, and flutter would give maximum of 4 x 14 I think.

the 14 are:
main hand 2 (gwf)
offhand 2 (gwf)
magical combat on all 4 gives reaving combat 4
flexible combat 4 (gwf)
cripple gives another main plus off, so 2

that's 14 in total. you should be able to get more from a bump, but after hundreds of training dummies, I never got more than 14.

and I never get more than 25 for flurry despite the possibility of 4 times 14.

So, can anyone get more than this? I have an idea to boost it further, but it is tough to get all the ducks in a row

I'll try to post a screenshot to demonstrate, but my char just died. lol.

btw, I do about 20,000 damage on these hits.

Arcane Combat doesn't proc Corrupted Strength anymore.

for multi hits just add Tempest of Metal.

St_ranger_er wrote:Arcane Combat doesn't proc Corrupted Strength anymore.

for multi hits just add Tempest of Metal.

yes it does, in 1.4.9. Any spell that occurs during a melee procs Corrupted Strength.

This is easy to demonstrate. Just make an adventurer with arcane combat and a spell and reaving combat. you will double your hits, and get blight dmg, every time the spell procs from AC.

Double, yes, but only double, iirc. There was a point arcane combat and corrupted strength would loop with each other, heh. It was beautiful, but hilariously broken.

... any case I'm guessing by flutter you mean flurry? Unless something was added I didn't notice, heh. Other stuff you could do is possibly shattering impact, and if you're actually saying one talent and not one attack shadow veil is probably the way to go. There's also a number of steamsaws that'd help out -- razorlock or sward (extra attacks), grinder (if the enemy has some sort of retaliation, for blindside procs), dethzaw (melee attack around you on crit, though it unfortunately has a check against recursion), probably stuff I'm forgetting and who knows what non-steamtech artifacts have slipped my mind. Fairly sure there's a few 2handers that proc for attacks, too (which'd mean going ogre, or using it as your psi-wield weapon). You'd want to take projection as your TK enabling tree, most likely, so you can turn on frenzied focus on top of all the rest of it. Pretty sure there's a warden talent or two that'd help out. Any of the clone spells might be countable, too. Probably other stuff I'm forgetting, really.

jenx wrote:So, can anyone get more than this?

If Sawrd hasn't been nerfed yet (has it?), then yes.

Ogre dual wielding with Sawrd in main hand, then add greater weapon focus and flexible combat. Now flurry. edit: I guess you should add the same ego gloves as you did.

Doesn't corona also proc reaving combat? Or has the arcane combat/reaving combat loop been fixed by limiting reaving combat procs?

Frumple wrote:Double, yes, but only double, iirc. There was a point arcane combat and corrupted strength would loop with each other, heh. It was beautiful, but hilariously broken.

... any case I'm guessing by flutter you mean flurry? Unless something was added I didn't notice, heh. Other stuff you could do is possibly shattering impact, and if you're actually saying one talent and not one attack shadow veil is probably the way to go. There's also a number of steamsaws that'd help out -- razorlock or sward (extra attacks), grinder (if the enemy has some sort of retaliation, for blindside procs), dethzaw (melee attack around you on crit, though it unfortunately has a check against recursion), probably stuff I'm forgetting and who knows what non-steamtech artifacts have slipped my mind. Fairly sure there's a few 2handers that proc for attacks, too (which'd mean going ogre, or using it as your psi-wield weapon). You'd want to take projection as your TK enabling tree, most likely, so you can turn on frenzied focus on top of all the rest of it. Pretty sure there's a warden talent or two that'd help out. Any of the clone spells might be countable, too. Probably other stuff I'm forgetting, really.

duh, yes i meant flurry. I don't play sawbutchers so I didn't know about them. i meant in the main game. but there too, there are a few weapons that have extra hits, like Butcher. I'll try with them.

I don't count TK hits from Frenzied Focus, Clone, Warden's Call, Scoundrel's bleed, Beyond the Flesh, earthen missiles hitting, because they register as a separate talent usage. What I meant was all the attacks that combine into a single (XX,XXX) damage value.

We could also have a competition for the most number of hits triggered by a single talent, and if FF was already running then you could count it I guess.

I'll look at Shattering Impact as I haven't experimented with that.

Pisastrish wrote:Doesn't corona also proc reaving combat? Or has the arcane combat/reaving combat loop been fixed by limiting reaving combat procs?

any spell will proc reaving combat, but that doesn't count. It has to be a spell cast whose damage occurs *at the same time* as the melee attack, such as flurry, blink blade, etc.

If we are looking at pure hits and not proc counts, im pretty sure this has the most hits:

An Ogre with Sawrd in main hand and Dethzaw in off hand. (with %100 crit chance)
GWF
Destroyer form
Flexible combat
Cripple gloves etc that count as hits
Corrupted strength (for +1 bump since abduct is a spell)
=>Hit with Abduct (hits 5 times with both weapons)

This comes down to
20 base hits from Abduct
+4 from corrupted strength
+1-2 from flexible combat? dunno exactly how this works
+1-2 from cripple proc? dunno exactly how that works either
=26-28 base hits. Now we will add the multipliers.

2x from GWF
2x from Dethzaw proc (assuming it doesnt loop with itself nor with GWF, and you dont run out of steam)

That comes down to a whopping ~108 hits from a single talent. I didnt count TK and Wardens Call etc. The only build that can rival this is probably a Razorlock-Dethzaw+Tempest of Metal build. But you need to have basically unlimited steam for that to work so I doubt that counts.

Someone said that Dethzaw has a recursion protection but even if you consider it procs only one time it would still be over 60 hits.

posetcay wrote:If we are looking at pure hits and not proc counts, im pretty sure this has the most hits:

An Ogre with Sawrd in main hand and Dethzaw in off hand. (with %100 crit chance)
GWF
Destroyer form
Flexible combat
Cripple gloves etc that count as hits
Corrupted strength (for +1 bump since abduct is a spell)
=>Hit with Abduct (hits 5 times with both weapons)

This comes down to
20 base hits from Abduct
+4 from corrupted strength
+1-2 from flexible combat? dunno exactly how this works
+1-2 from cripple proc? dunno exactly how that works either
=26-28 base hits. Now we will add the multipliers.

2x from GWF
2x from Dethzaw proc (assuming it doesnt loop with itself nor with GWF, and you dont run out of steam)

That comes down to a whopping ~108 hits from a single talent. I didnt count TK and Wardens Call etc. The only build that can rival this is probably a Razorlock-Dethzaw+Tempest of Metal build. But you need to have basically unlimited steam for that to work so I doubt that counts.

Someone said that Dethzaw has a recursion protection but even if you consider it procs only one time it would still be over 60 hits.

wow! Is this from embers? I have barely played the two campaigns...

Yeah, embers has a few unique weapons that have a multiple attacks effect. Most of them are the new steamsaws or steamguns, but one of them, sawrd, is just a two handed sword.

Number43 wrote:Yeah, embers has a few unique weapons that have a multiple attacks effect. Most of them are the new steamsaws or steamguns, but one of them, sawrd, is just a two handed sword.

Can you get them in the main game in any way?

jenx wrote:

Number43 wrote:Yeah, embers has a few unique weapons that have a multiple attacks effect. Most of them are the new steamsaws or steamguns, but one of them, sawrd, is just a two handed sword.

Can you get them in the main game in any way?

Yes, you could get them through the item vault, though for a lot of it to have a chance to spawn in the main campaign, you either need to be a tinker class, or get a tinker escort (unlocked by beating embers once), then choose a certain option from it, then spend a category point to unlock the tinker crafting trees. If you don't know those trees, steamtech items won't show up, except as weapons dropped by high rank enemies that had them equipped.

Ok. I'll try to beat embers then

That is, to get a tinker escort you need to beat embers. To unlock tinker classes in the main campaign, beat the boss of the "Sunwall Outpost" with any 2 tinker classes.