ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

both talent trees say they are spells and they take a turn. But on an Adventurer with Reaving Combat, they never trigger the free melee attack, and they don't *seem* to proc on hit spell, but I could be wrong about that.

So, are they spells, or melee attacks? or both or neither?

why don't they trigger an attack with Reaving Combat?

It seems to be based on the speed the skill use.
Blade and Bow threading do not use Spell speed , so they must disqualify as spell. While Scourge Skill being spell-speed based proc Reaving stikes

Okay it is definitely not based on talent speed.

Haven't checked the code for Reaving Combat lately but on Spell procs require damage to be done with a spell flag. So perhaps a weapon attack made from a talent marked as a spell is not marking the damage as from a spell source.
I would tend to agree that these are not a spell source of damage.

You could check that by casting Vimsense and see if you get a free attack. Does no damage but it's still a spell. Now I'm curious.

Important note: While Blade Threading and Bow Threading skills might not trigger Reaving Combat, they do trigger Temporal Dilation, and get shut down by silence.

Edit:

Having gone and poked at the code a bit, Corrupted Strength triggers after talent activation for talents that

a) aren't instant,
b) aren't sustained,
c) have the spell tag,
when
d) you aren't forbidden from using Corrupted Strength triggers,
e) Corrupted Strength hasn't already triggered this turn,
f) you have a living target next to you.

I don't know what might set the "forbid_corrupted_strength_blow" flag, or even if it can be set for a player, but other than that, I don't see why Blade Threading talents wouldn't trigger it. I wouldn't be surprised if a Phase Door rune could trigger it - provided you ended up next to a legal target.

Maybe there's some weirdness on account of the weapon switching code?

Candesce wrote:Important note: While Blade Threading and Bow Threading skills might not trigger Reaving Combat, they do trigger Temporal Dilation, and get shut down by silence.

Edit:

Having gone and poked at the code a bit, Corrupted Strength triggers after talent activation for talents that

a) aren't instant,
b) aren't sustained,
c) have the spell tag,
when
d) you aren't forbidden from using Corrupted Strength triggers,
e) Corrupted Strength hasn't already triggered this turn,
f) you have a living target next to you.

I don't know what might set the "forbid_corrupted_strength_blow" flag, or even if it can be set for a player, but other than that, I don't see why Blade Threading talents wouldn't trigger it. I wouldn't be surprised if a Phase Door rune could trigger it - provided you ended up next to a legal target.

Maybe there's some weirdness on account of the weapon switching code?

This doesn't explain to me why reaving combat doesn't trigger though. Bow Threading is a spell. It can be silenced etc.

Darkgod - can you clarify please?

Candesce wrote:I don't know what might set the "forbid_corrupted_strength_blow" flag, or even if it can be set for a player

From what I saw, this flag is used only once, probably so that one NPC can dual wields 1h weapons but isn't a Reaver. It's the orc boss in the dwarf starter dungeon.

This problem finally irritated me enough to actually test, rather than just poke at code.

Blade Threading and Bow Threading both can trigger Corrupted Strength.

Arrow Stitching's clones will trigger it, even!

Just, you know, at melee range with a bow bash, so kinda shit.

Candesce wrote:This problem finally irritated me enough to actually test, rather than just poke at code.

Blade Threading and Bow Threading both can trigger Corrupted Strength.

Arrow Stitching's clones will trigger it, even!

Just, you know, at melee range with a bow bash, so kinda shit.

I tested too but could never get it to trigger! I must have done something wrong...